hindu trinity and christian trinity

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by robtex, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. robtex Registered Senior Member

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    582
    Hinduism has a trinity. It is

    1) brahma =creation

    2) vishnu= preservation

    3) shiva = destruction

    Brahma is the supreme God and one who created the universe and mankind in Hinduism. Vishnu overseas life and Shiva is the end of life....the three represent the cycle of life. Beginning duration and end...in its totality.

    The catholic church and some other christians have a trinity too:

    God
    Son (jesus)
    and the holy ghost

    Could the Christians have drawn from Hindu wisdom with the creation of the trinity?

    God created
    the holy ghost is a spirt like a soul so it preserves
    and jesus who will come back as prophetized in revelations as the destroyer...or one who will return at the end of the world?
     
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  3. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    You mistook Brahma, the creator (deity) for Brahman, the supreme reality.
    Most of the hindus don't worship Brahma because he tried to fool both Shiva & Vishnu by saying lie. His creation is not perfect anyway.

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    Last edited: Oct 30, 2004
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  5. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus is the saviour to liberate souls from screwed up creation.

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  7. what768 Guest

    If you didn't already know it, all religions come from one teaching, and thus so many similarities. We shouldn't separate religions because they all describe the same thing, somewhat differently. Some people understand buddhism, so they follow it, and in the same way, some people understand christianity, hinduism, islam, or any other religion. The paths are endless but there is only one mountain. When we really start to understand the religion we will start to see god's law in the nature and it will be written in our hearts.
     
  8. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    all the trinities describd here come from patriarchal myth. Think however of the Goddess Trinity as phases of the Moon. so we have the Maiden (waxing moon), the Mother/Virgin ('virgin' meaning not celibate, but independent woman. it's original meaning), and Crone (waning moon)

    you see the patriarchal version coopted this much more ancient myth, but what it did was demonize the 'virgin/wild woman' and the 'crone/underworld/unconscious/death'. it cast these out and put all their attributes into their scapegoat, the "Devil".
    Same it is so with the Indian version. as you can see 'Siva' is masculinized? as are all the patriarchal christian trinity who threw out the wild aspect of the Goddess, keeping the subservient, and passive 'Eve' and 'Virgin Mary'....This wild woman is not gender specific, but is part of each of us which has been suppressed and repressed
     
  9. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    It would be interesting if you know that Shiva gave his left half of his body so that his consort (roughly translates to wife) Shakti is literally his other half. Vishnu's consort Lakshmi is living in Vishnu's Heart. Saraswati is equally intellectual and worshipped by everyone unlike her consort(husband) Brahma.
     
  10. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus came as a human being, the Living Word of God. All life flows from Him. All things have their existence in Him. It is He who makes His sun to shine on the hindu man and the christian man. It is he who makes his sun shine on the god fearing and the godless. It is by His hands that we are created and by His hands that we will be destroyed. Who then should you turn to for wisdom? In all reverence I say eternal life is freely available to all who believe in Him that is. Eternal life should be the gift that man seeks since you are so frustrated that you cannot achieve this by yourself. You do not even know which day you shall die but God does.

    peace

    c20
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Incorrect. Vishnu is the Supreme Lord (spirit) who maintains, Brahma, is the first created being (from Vishnus abdomen), creator of the Planetary systems and progenitor of the universe (father), Shiva, is the son of Brahma, whose job is to destroy the universe a certain point in time (Rudra).

    Jan Ardena.
     
  12. Roman Banned Banned

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    what768

    Ametuer.
    Norse religion and the Aztecs contradict Bhuddism and Christianity so well, you should cork it.
     
  13. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Are you joking?
     
  14. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    It is said that Lord Shiva was born from between the eyes of Lord Brahma.

    Jan Ardena.
     
  15. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    It was said by whom? where???
     
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It is clearly stated in the Bhagavat Purana (Srimad Bhagavatam);

    Canto; 3.12.6

    so 'vadhyātaḥ sutair evaḿ
    pratyākhyātānuśāsanaiḥ
    krodhaḿ durviṣahaḿ jātaḿ
    niyantum upacakrame


    SYNONYMS

    saḥ — he (Brahmā); avadhyātaḥ — thus being disrespected; sutaiḥ — by the sons; evam — thus; pratyākhyāta — refusing to obey; anuśāsanaiḥ — the order of their father; krodham — anger; durviṣaham — too much to be tolerated; jātam — thus generated; niyantum — to control; upacakrame — tried his best.

    TRANSLATION

    On the refusal of the sons (Kumaras) to obey the order of their father, there was much anger generated in the mind of Brahmā, which he tried to control and not express.

    3.12.7.

    dhiyā nigṛhyamāṇo 'pi
    bhruvor madhyāt prajāpateḥ
    sadyo 'jāyata tan-manyuḥ
    kumāro nīla-lohitaḥ


    SYNONYMS

    dhiyā — by intelligence; nigṛhyamāṇaḥ — being controlled; api — in spite of; bhruvoḥ — of the eyebrows; madhyāt — from between; prajāpateḥ — of Brahmā; sadyaḥ — at once; ajāyata — generated; tat — his; manyuḥ — anger; kumāraḥ — a child; nīla-lohitaḥ — mixture of blue and red.

    TRANSLATION

    Although he tried to curb his anger, it came out from between his eyebrows, and a child mixed blue and red was immediately generated.


    3.12.10.

    yad arodīḥ sura-śreṣṭha
    sodvega iva bālakaḥ
    tatas tvām abhidhāsyanti
    nāmnā rudra iti prajāḥ


    SYNONYMS

    yat — as much as; arodīḥ — cried loudly; sura-śreṣṭha — O chief of the demigods; sa-udvegaḥ — with great anxiety; iva — like; bālakaḥ — a boy; tataḥ — therefore; tvām — you; abhidhāsyanti — will call; nāmnā — by the name; rudraḥ — Rudra; iti — thus; prajāḥ — people.

    TRANSLATION

    Thereafter Brahmā said: O chief of the demigods, you shall be called by the name Rudra by all people because you have so anxiously cried.


    3.12.12.

    manyur manur mahinaso
    mahāñ chiva ṛtadhvajaḥ
    ugraretā bhavaḥ kālo
    vāmadevo dhṛtavrataḥ


    SYNONYMS

    manyuḥ, manuḥ, mahinasaḥ, mahān, śivaḥ, ṛtadhvajaḥ, ugaretāḥ, bhavaḥ, kālaḥ, vāmadevaḥ, dhṛtavrataḥ — all names of Rudra.

    TRANSLATION

    Lord Brahmā said: My dear boy Rudra, you have eleven other names: Manyu, Manu, Mahinasa, Mahān, Śiva, Ṛtadhvaja, Ugraretā, Bhava, Kāla, Vāmadeva and Dhṛtavrata.

    Jan Ardena.
     
  17. beyondtimeandspace Everlasting Student Registered Senior Member

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    554
    The Christian Trinity is described most commonly as:

    Father
    Son
    Holy Spirit

    Realize that genders are irrelivant to the actuality of God here, since God wouldn't even have a gender, the given genders are simply representative of ideas.

    The three persons of the Christian Trinity have also been described as such:

    Father - Creator - Will (Free)
    Son - Word - Intellect
    Holy Spirit - Life - Love

    It is said that the Son was begotten of the Father, meaning that the Intellect is a result of Free Will, and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, meaning that emotion is a result of an interaction between the intellect and will. This is the Image of God that the Bible describes, which is imprinted into every human being. In Hinduism, it is called divinity. The Trinity of God, however, is eternal, and therefore, the Son, as being begotten of the Father, is symbolic, since both would have always existed necessarily. The same is to be said of the Holy Spirit. This being because God is an infinite being, and therefore no person is different from another, and all three are identical, hence one being. The persons, however, are actually the different axioms of that which is, and as such, Christians call God Trinitarian.

    Clearly, this may be similar to the Hindu Trinity, but it is not a definite source match (at least by what it has been described here).
     
  18. robtex Registered Senior Member

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    582
    hey BTS...good to hear from you. Let me isolate the Christian holy spirt for a second if you will....I want to ask you, and other Christians who may be poking in over here...when you say the H. Ghost is life and love....how did you reach that conclusion ? I ask because living in the bible belt (texas) I noticed there seems to be some confusion over who he is or what he does. I threw out the idea of him being like the hindu God Vishnu because I thought the holy ghost might be like the summation of all the souls.

    I threw out Jesus as the destroyer because he is to come back in Christian prophecy, on the last day----the 2nd comming, and with him comes the destruction of earth...he is benevolent in his words but his Christian destiny is the apocalypse.
     
  19. beyondtimeandspace Everlasting Student Registered Senior Member

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    554
    thanks robtex, it's nice to have a voice that is appreciated.

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    In regards to your question concerning the Holy Spirit, I will answer that my conclusions concerning the Holy Spirit come out of Scripture, Philosophic Tradition, as well as my own ponderings on the subject.

    Firstly, with regards to the Holy Spirit being Love, this comes out of a philosophic tradition concerning the identity of the Christian Trinity. I will give a more in-depth descrpition of the Trinity according to the Tradition as it was described to me.

    God the Father, being the origin, the creator, and infinite in Himself, understood and knew Himself perfectly. As it is, according to metaphysics, the first act of any spirit is to know, this being because spirits are free willing and intellectual. Hence, a conscious entity, the first act of God, wrought out from all eternity, was to know, and what was there to know aside from Himself? Hence, the first eternal act of God was knowledge of Himself. Now, it is said that when God thinks, or when a thought enters into the mind of God, that thought becomes reality (I am not sure from where this reasoning arises, but I take it that it has to do with the nature of God as an infinite being). Hence, in the first eternal act of God, perfectly knowing Himself, the son was begotten (again, from eternity). Since the Son is that perfect knowledge of God's own being, the Son is identical with the Father, and hence by nature of being infinite, they are one and the same entity. God understood Himself perfectly, and in knowing His perfection, and infinity, could only but feel a kind of love for Himself that no other being could claim. As such, His Son, being identical with Himself, was also worthy of such a love. The Son, also recognizing these truths, both loved Himself perfectly, and the Father perfectly, they being the same being, and therefore worthy of equal love. Because this love was of an infinite nature, and was an intellectual love, based upon knowledge of one for the other and each of himself, that intellectual love is the proceeding of the Holy Spirit. Since this love is infinite, and of an intellectual nature, as well as fully, and freely willed, to an infinite extent, it is therefore identical with both the Father and the Son, in being. Hence, three infinite persons, one infinite being.

    It is by my own meanderings that I came to realize that this was a commentary on the nature of Free Will, Intellect, and Emotion. For, the Image Of God, as spoken of in the Genesis, is this very notion.

    Secondly, in regards to the Holy Spirit being Life, I take this from Scriptures, and conclusion concerning it was arrived at by my own contemplations. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." I came to understand this as another depiction of the Trinity. The Way referring to the Father, the Creator, the Will. The Truth referring to the Son, the Word, the Intellect. Finally, the Life, referring to the Holy Spirit, Love, Emotion. If one looks at the derivation, etymologically speaking, of the word spirit, it originates from "breath" or "wind." This being spoken in reference to living creatures. Breath was a sign of life. Even plants are said to have souls. This is because to have a soul, or spirit, means simply to have life. Ergo, in naming the third person of the Trinity the Holy SPIRIT, it was a declaration of the Life of God.

    Now, concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus isn't considered the Destroyer. It is true that when Jesus is believed to come again, it will be at the end of time (or the end of the world), but there was never the connotation (I think) that He would be the destroyer of time (or the world.... I'm not entirely sure which it is). However, I'm certainly not infallible, and I could be wrong.
     
  20. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Shiva Purana would tell you different story.

    Each Purana dedicated to certain God would shamelessly degrade other Gods.
    I would take not even 50% as truth from the puranas.


    Rudras, lots of them were there, called so for their ferociousness. The basic word is "Raudhram" means anger.

    This Chiva and Lord Shiva were not the same person. This Kala and the Yama (the god of death, who is also called Kala) cannot be the same person. Manu who devised social laws certainly cannot be this guy.

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  21. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    The Holy Ghost is the spirit of God. A living wind from God sent to believer's of Jesus Christ. The Spirit is received freely by all whom believe on the name of Jesus Christ. Faith in Jesus is the conception of being forgiven through Him. This is the starting point of humility and without this the Holy Spirit is not willing to begin it's work with you.
    Accepting Jesus in your life is to say "I am not good. Only God is Good. Thank you Jesus that you became sin and took the punishment due to me and thank God that you are risen that I may know the Father even as you know the Father and that in you I have eternal life."
    From this moment the Spirit is upon you jealously redeeming you from the world of men so that you may be acceptable to God. The Holy Spirit is a refining fire. Your mind will be renewed as it is transformed to be as the mind of Christ. The Holy Spirit is refered to as the Helper.
    Anyone may call me what they like but to blaspheme against the Spirit of God may never be forgiven.

    peace

    c20
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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  23. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Brahma was addressing Chiva not Lord Shiva.



    When you explain, at length, why he is a 'manu', not the human king manu, it is funny that you conveniently skip to discuss why he is just a 'rudra' not Lord Shiva, why he is Chiva not Lord Shiva.

    Lord Vishnu is Great, that does not mean Lord Shiva has to be 'depicted' somehow as a lesser creature than Vishnu & his son brahma.
     

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