Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about events where the patient sees particular things while he/she is dead, but that were not present while he/she was conscious, and when the patient what was doctor saying at these given moments and similar, this is not made up by hallucinations.

 

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Work cannot be destroyed, either you have work or you don't have work, it's neither created or destroyed energy always transforms from one form to the other. You should look in the forum "Energy, what is it" and see that this definition of energy is not really correct:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?114726-Energy-What-is-it&p=2966423#post2966423

And what makes you think math can solve everything, how arrogant is that? Biophysics should explore this question. PMB on the link I gave you said nicely:
"The most important property about energy is that the total energy of a closed system is conserved (i.e. constant in time). Momentum can also do work and is also conserved but its not the same as energy. It’s for reasons like this that there’s no real definition of energy. As Richard Feynman says in his lectures:
It is important to realize that in physics today, we have no knowledge of what energy is. We do not have a picture that energy comes in little blobs of a definite amount. It is not that way. However, there are formulas for calculating some numerical quantity, and we add it all together it gives “28” - always the same number. It is an abstract thing in that it does not tell us the mechanism or the reasons for the various formulas."

Because you forbid other people to think otherwise because you think this approach is correct, like I said science has explained over 99% of NDEs/OBEs events, but some of the events are not explained, I've shown which one.

Very funny.

 

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The patient only THOUGHT they were dead, and after being resuscitated and told that they died, their misinterpretation seemed confirmed. They had the hallucination just before actually dying. Machines may register you as dead a few moments before all brain activity stops. Your heart can stop and your breathing cease but your brain is still racing around trying to stay alive, all the while hearing what is going on and imagining the imagery to go with it. So you may even hear the time of death called just before you actually die. and a moment or two later your brain stops. Then in a flash you are "back in your body" because they have resuscitated you and your brain picks up where the last thought left off. Your brain doesn't interpret time correctly when in a dream state. a dream takes place in a few flashes but when you remember it to tell a friend it seems to have lasted an hour or two. And time seems to stop when you are actually dead. When you go to sleep for 8 hours, you don't perceive the 8 hours go by because you are sleeping.

There are also certain natural brain chemicals that can give you that out of body sensation. Meditation can induce the production of these chemicals. I used to be into silly nonsense like esp, magic, ghosts and stuff as a kid. I had a book that told how to have an OBE. I followed the steps and sure enough I felt as if I was rising off the floor. I found out as I got older that the technique I used worked by flooding the brain with endorphins. The same thing happens when you use certain drugs, such as high doses of Demerol.

You mentioned that it was a crime to tell someone that there is no afterlife when they are facing certain death at any moment. Maybe it is cruel to tell them in that moment that they will soon cease to exist and there is no heaven or god to receive them and comfort them and that they spent their life worshiping an imaginary friend. But it is also cruel to tell a 600 lb woman how gross and disgusting she looks. Never telling her how unsettling it is to even look at her wont change the fact that most people would be repulsed by her appearance or that she is not hot and sexy to most people. So telling a lie to make someone feel better is still a lie.

 

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How can chemicals work if they are clinically dead, and heart does not pulsate?

 

The brain produces the chemicals in the time leading up to death. The brain is flooded with them and until the absolute last spark of activity occurs in the brain, which may be a couple of minutes after the heart stops and breathing stops. And as long as sparks of activity are taking place in this endorphin flooded brain, it will perceive sensations associated with an endorphin high.

 

Yes, but chemicals cannot function anymore in these death situations and cannot create any kind of illusions, since there are no electrical activities to induce these hallucinations.

 

How odd you say this; yet you say that the mind keeps functioning after death as a spirit.
Didn't really think this one all the way through, did ya?

 

You aren't listening. I said,

Chemicals do not function. They are just fluids that are there. They have an affect on the tissues and synapses in the brain. The brain continues to function for a few moments after the heart stops and breathing stops. Chemicals do not have to exist in a living body to have an affect on the matter they are in contact with. Endorphins in contact with human brain tissue will continue to affect the tissue until the absolute last spark of activity occurs. That last spark can happen after clinical death is declared.

I think if God came down himself and told you he didn't exist and that there was no heaven you would still refuse to believe. You simply do not WANT to understand what I am telling you. It hurts, I understand. It's scary, I get it. Don't accept it if you don't want to. It's a relatively harmless delusion to believe in life after death. It's a coping skill that I don't really want to take from you. You NEED to believe. Others don't.

 

My point here, is if there is no electrical activity, than there are these chemical fluids cannot make those hallucinations-which are leftovers from chemical activity while they were still active with electrical activity, and this still does not explain how can see a picture that was not in the room while patients were awake.this picture cannot be hallucination, for example.

 

But your transformed energy would keep going, who says you die. Work cannot be destroyed, because it's not created. You should look at this thread:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?114726-Energy-What-is-it

"This is the one definition of energy, merely one property of energy and not even the most important property of energy. The most important property about energy is that the total energy of a closed system is conserved (i.e. constant in time). Momentum can also do work and is also conserved but its not the same as energy. It’s for reasons like this that there’s no real definition of energy. As Richard Feynman says in his lectures:
It is important to realize that in physics today, we have no knowledge of what energy is. We do not have a picture that energy comes in little blobs of a definite amount. It is not that way. However, there are formulas for calculating some numerical quantity, and we add it all together it gives “28” - always the same number. It is an abstract thing in that it does not tell us the mechanism or the reasons for the various formulas."

I already answered energy question, and regarding math, math is not omnipotent, you cannot solve everything by using math, when you will learn that? Match can help in these situations, but it cannot be definite proof, it can wrong or right. When you die, yes energy is transformed, how do you know this? Transformed energy continues to exist, in some other form, and you cannot be sure that some sub-conscious part of us does not continue to exist-in order to know that we should have the entire knowledge on everything in the universe, on all levels.

Because I've got the impression you forbid others to think otherwise, thinking you're right, in these cases, either you or me or anyone else can be right.

Very funny...

 

Good grief, do you just read every other sentence? I already explained that the hallucinations happen just before that last spark of activity which may well occur moments after the doctor has declared a time of death.

 

And how exactly hallucinations are going to take affect if you have no activity at all after that, they can start affecting person, but than the brain shuts down, and activity stops, hallucinations without "the fuel" cannot do anything.
And I already gave you example: this still does not explain how can a clinically dead person see pictures that were not in the room while patients were awake, these pictures cannot be hallucination when clinically dead persons see them after they fell into clinical death without previous observation when they were awake, for example.

 

They don't take affect after the last spark of activity. I have stated this many times. It happens just before that last spark.

source

source

As you can see, clinical death does not mean that the brain is dead. It only means that the heart has stopped and the breathing has stopped. The brain can continue to flicker for a few moments beyond that but not long. It may be less than a minute but that is all the time it takes to produce a hallucination where even time is distorted to seem longer than it was.

Also the "memories" that people have after a NDE are often modified by hopeful and caring family members and doctors that help, inadvertantly to confirm and correct the details of the memory as the patient describes them. They help because they too want to believe.

 

no one truly knows what happens to the mind in a coma.. it could be a made up place by the brain.. op stated he was religious just not hard core religious.. so he was explained what "heaven" was like.. you hear lots of stories saying i saw heaven never i saw hell...

and since you call intelligent people assholes. well the "assholes" here ask the religious crazies for proof of anything.. and throught the thousands of posts not 1 piece of evidence has been collected.. hell there is more sightings of credible UFO sightings than anything in the bible..

as the old saying goes
if you have an invisible friend as a child you have an active imagination
if you have an invisible friend as an adult your crazy
if you have an invisible friend as an adult named jesus or god your religious

 

And once again when patients say what doctors were doing at any given moments during operations and doctors confirm everything what they have done at any given moments, than you know this is not a hallucination, but a true NDE/OBE, this is crucial what you're ignoring.

 

That doesn't actually happen. There is no such thing as a "true" NDE/OBE.

 

All I'm saying just because there is no proof it doesn't mean life after death does not exist in some form. You said: Extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before anyone is obliged to treat them with respect."
That's true but appears that scientists can go out in public with all kinds of hypotheses based on mathematical equations with no scientific evidence at all, and none is accusing them they are breaking the rule "extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before anyone is obliged to treat them with respect". So if scientists can break that rule, so can other people break that rule as well.

And what makes you think that other forms of energy do not exist? Just because the math says so? Math has its limitations, you know. Look at neutrino it barely has interaction with other matter in the universe, but it has it. Yes, math has predicted neutrino, but neutrino case shows there are maybe other particles that do not interact with no matter/energy in the universe, which are truly ghostly particles (neutrino is considered ghostly particle since it has so weak interaction with other matter/energy) which have zero interaction with all the known matter in the universe.
Regarding transformation of energy, yes, energy transforms in the way you said, but who says that's all, that's all that we can detect, once you have the ability to detect everything in the universe, than we can that's it, but there is no way of knowing this, until this is the case (and we will never be able to detect everything).

I agree with you, I really don't know why is so bad to be religious or spiritual person just like anyone has the right to be atheist/theist, gnostic/agnostic or whatever they want that's the fundamental right of any person on this planet, not to mention there are scientists (and there were scientists) who were religious/spiritual, believed in afterlife, and yet they are excellent scientists (just for example).
Cheers.

 

When are scientists 'breaking this rule?'
You state this as fact- examples showing scientists making bold assertions with zero evidence would suit better.

This entire paragraph claims that there will always be the 'unknown' beyond detection. I won't argue whether or not that is true (hardly) at the moment.
Merely point out- that's an excuse.

It's not "so bad" to be religious, it's "so bad" to be absurd.
Absurdities lead to a great many problems, financially, politically and physically. Think about how many parents make their young children suffer in bed at home praying over them instead of allowing proper medical care.
How about that Oklahoma case where a 13 year old was raped... raped, not 'touched,' not shown videos- Held and raped. The parents are refusing to cooperate with the police, choosing instead to pray about it.
What kind of trauma does this do to the child? Is that child going to feel safe out in the world with that kind of response? Trust has been absolutely shattered.
Through-out time, religion has been the bane of progress, convincing people to remain devout in absurdities, ignorant and giving excuses for the bigots and greedy to use against people.
How often have I heard religious people claim that scientific understanding was of the Devil? Teaching that learning things that question God is Satans work to children?
That generation is to become doctors and researchers and developers?
How often has religion been used to support/defend things like racism, sexism, hate crimes and war?
Granted- that is not the fault of 'religion,' rather it's the fault of ignorance that people use religion to cover for. Religion allows it. It offers nothing progressive in return.

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I should have said I was clinically dead. My heart had stopped and my breathing had stopped. The doctor didn't officially call it though. He said he sees it happen too often and wanted to wait and see if I revived. Which of course I did. He said I was "dead" only about 30 seconds. Though my vision of following my son seemed to last about 30 minutes. Hallucinations in time are fun. Most of what I viewed in my vision, was accurate by my memory but I didn't "realize" I had seen real places in the hospital until I was up and able to go to the NICU. So in reality the hallucination was likely to be very blurry and details obscured but as I walked along the corridor my brain saw similarities and filled in the gaps of the "memory" giving me the false assumption that the hallucination was real rather than an incomplete invention that was completed after my resuscitation.

Add that to the 4 or 5 times I pointed it out. Thank you for elaborating on this. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one aware of this.