Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by electrafixtion, Mar 23, 2009.
the phoenix lights?
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A book containing rhetoric? Yeah, that's going to sway me.
I wanted evidence, not rhetoric.
BTW, having grown up surrounded by the military, I've never come across one pilot or navigator who has had a UFO experience and claimed it to be ET.
Also, as civilians fly more man hours than the military these days, all going on holiday with their cameras at the ready, I'd expect the 'foo fighters' of legend to be captured on film daily, if they happened anywhere near as often as reported during WWII.
But we don't see that, so I think what it underlines if the effect the stress of combat has on perception, so military pilots, under combat situations, aren't the most reliable witnesses.
"The Phoenix Lights (sometimes referred to as the "lights over Phoenix") were a series of widely-sighted optical phenomena (generally unidentified flying objects) that occurred in the skies over the U.S. states of Arizona and Nevada, and the Mexican state of Sonora on March 13, 1997. A similar incident occurred April 21, 2008., This incident was later revealed to be prank–flares attached to helium balloons."
Even a president has reported seeing a UFO. That was Carter. He was mistaken> It was Venus. That still does not prevent people from claiming that Carter saw a UFO. Even presidents make mistakes.
Leopold99 I looked up this book you mentioned. It is an older book. It seems to be listed as references only on UFO and occult sites. Only 1 place seems to discuss the contents of the book that is not a 'gotta believe no matter what' site.
To be frank here I don't have the time to read through the book. Is there any particular issue in the book that you found to be more compelling than other parts?
There is something that does get missed by most of the sightings, it's probably something that should be taken into consideration (it is of course only hypothesis, possible proof could be "Heavens Gate".), however in certain States of the US it's known there is a number of Religious Cult Groups. The leaders of such groups like to manipulate the people within their Sects with "Miracles", a would suggest that a "prank sighting" could well indeed be one of these "Miracles", it's just witnesses outside of their little cult circle catch a glimpse of them too.
As Phlogistician points out, the Phoenix lights turned out to be misinterpreted by many, many observers. The first set of sightings actually involved two incidents in one night. The first was observed to be planes by someone with a telescope.The second was flares dropped by the military and they said so. What is so amazing about the dual event is that the news and others mixed the two events into one. A video shown by a so-called credible news network interviews the ex-gov of Arizona while he talks about event 1, while the network shows footage of event 2. So the ex-gov's commentary and the video are of two separate events.
you should have read the whole article. normally i dont believe in ufo's but this.:shrug:
There are other articles besides the Wikipedia. I did read the Wiki entry and it is not as complete as other information that I have read on the subject.
some good documentaries too. one way i always look at it is that the distance to travel is just too far to travel. that is my understanding.
Find a video about Symington's interview about the lights where he, now as ex-gov, talks about believing that he saw a UFO. Now watch the video carefully. See that it shows the lights low in the sky and in a rough line. Then try to match up this view with the two reports for that night: lights to the south of the city and a 'giant triangle overhead'. Which of these two incidents do you think is shown while Symington speaks? Be a good researcher and check out for yourself that there were 2 incidents in 1 night and that there is an obvious mismatch between the words and the visuals shown by NBC news.
Now if that has your interest you can see if you can find out where the telescope observer spotted the first set of lights that night and easily identified them as planes.
If you listen to Symington he differentiates what he saw from the flares dropped by the military. You might want to see how many UFO experts out there have posted videos with so-called evidence that the flare lights could not have been flares.
I did, but I just didn't C&P the whole article.
Phoenix lights was not a UFO phenomenon. Case closed.
it's a book based entirely on fact.
the major issues i found to be the most compelling:
why was kehoes major witnesses bought off or murdered?
why was kehoes office burgarized, not once but several times, and his evidence stolen?
what does majestic-12 have to do with all of this and why was at least two people of majestic-12 on kehoes witness list?
if you decide to read the book, be sure to get a first edition of it.
Why is a first edition important?
Want to rephrase that? Many dramatised films are based on fact.
Here's a question, does the book contain evidence, or allegory?
other than first hand witness accounts no, it doesn't contain any actual flying saucers.
the book does contain many sightings and photographs that have never been explained.
the book also goes into detail about the following:
the press was invited to these hearings but was forbidden to ask any questions.
i especially like this: (from the above link)
Of the six scientists who testified in the Symposium, five were of the opinion that there was a valid scientific anomaly that should be further investigated. Only Dr. Sagan, while conceding that some cases remained unexplained, was more skeptical.
In fact, Dr. McDonald's thoroughly prepared paper with case histories is considered a milestone in UFO research. McDonald concluded: "My own study of the UFO problem has convinced me that we must rapidly escalate serious scientific attention to this extraordinarily intriguing puzzle."
a personal preference of mine, no particular reason.
So just a load of allegorical BS, like people mis-identifying Venus. I think I can happily give it a miss.
Now, got any evidence?
go watch some star trek phlog and stay out of this thread.
Leopold there are good reasons why people are skeptical of these claims: because of the propagation of misinformation through misrepresentation of evidence, and unwarranted extrapolations.
This material goes back 50 years or maybe longer and after all of that time there is little to show for it other than wishful thinking.
I am not surprised when I read about people claiming to have seen UFOs. I've seen planes and satellites and had people right next to me arguing that they were UFOs. The trekkie, star wars, BSG, and other shows tap into this desire to see UFOs. Makes money right.
Have you ever wondered why this book you mention seems to not be of interest today?
what would a good reason be to buy off and murder witnesses, or to break into your office and steal your evidence?
i'll agree. as a matter of fact i seen a low flying jet that looked exactly like drawings of UFOs.
probably because few people knows it exists and the damning evidence it contains.
stuff such as testimony from top military brass, whitehouse officials, airline pilots, and aircraft controllers.
surely you can't call these people deluded, these people know the difference between venus, balloons, and gas balls.
Separate names with a comma.