hair loss

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by srikar, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, thanks for the logical fallacy! It's known as a red herring, since ITT we are discussing male pattern baldness, not prostate cancer, or heart disease, or any of the other myriad conditions where there is a complex interplay between heredity and environment.
     
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  3. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Was thinking the same thing. WTH is it with people these days..? Stop trying to win the conversation with red herrings. Try to learn, instead.
     
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  5. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Oh yes please teach me oh wise one!
     
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  7. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    I asked you, repoman, to prove that hair loss is entirely genetic and you "proved" that wikipedia says it is caused by genetics. I presented an article that talks about an experiment in which a group of men physically alter their genes by changing their diet and lifestyle and you say that this isn't relevant because it wasn't the genes that cause hair loss. But if genes aren't set in stone anymore and can be changed by our daily choices, how can anyone state with absolute certainty that it is IMPOSSIBLE to change the genes that cause hair loss in this same way? Am I missing something here?

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  8. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    And also, even the wikipedia article you presented isn't sure about itself:

    "Incidence of pattern baldness varies from population to population based on genetic background, environmental factors do not SEEM to affect this type of baldness greatly."

    So to simplify, this was just someone's (we don't know who) general observation and is by no means an established fact or even a tested hypothesis - it is really just a hypothesis.
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    that will clog the porse, further inhibiting the hair follicle complete fruition. therefore the it cannot break through the oil.
     
  10. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Wikipedia represents mainstream medical thinking on this subject. Woo aside, there is no controversy about the link between hormones, heredity, and androgenic alopecia. Where is the evidence that diet and exercise can in any way alter the onset or progression of androgenic alopecia? Just because it has been demonstrated to be somewhat effective against prostate cancer in no way implies the same is true for androgenic alopecia. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Moreover, if it were possible to stop or reverse male pattern baldness in any significant way through diet, exercise, the use of potions containing wolfsbane, or any other means, it likely would have been found by now. Fabulous wealth awaits the corporation or individual who finds a true cure for androgenic alopecia.
     
  11. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    Lol, yah, fabulous wealth. All you have to do is patent running and broccoli and you're set.

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    I just gave you extraordinary evidence that a person's genes can be changed by their choices... while it may be possible, I can't rule it out, that some genes either can't be changed or are more stubborn than others, there is still a possibility (albeit a good one) that if some genes can be changed by diet and lifestyle changes then so can others - can't you at the very least admit that this is a possibility and that "science" doesn't have all the answers yet?

    You're starting to sound a lot like the religious hypocrite that won't admit his doubt. Maybe "scientists" and Christians aren't so different after all

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  12. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Its no secret that a good diet and regular exercise is good for you in a myriad of ways, yet that doesnt stop people ignoring this advice and eating like a slob and living a sedimentary lifestyles. Its one thing to prove it, its another thing to get people to take this advice onboard, in fact most people prefer to bypass healthy eating and regular exercise (of say, 200-300 minutes a week) and turn to prescription drugs instead becasue its easier.

    In the end though, its your body and the best thing anyone can do is try it out for themselves. Theres nothing to lose by following a healthy balanced diet and exercising regularly. If it dosent work, say after a year, then at least you know for sure. Maybe you still go bald by 25, who knows. Its just that I am not 100% convinced that baldness is entirely 100% impossible to slow down, or delay. Perhaps it is, but for me at the moment its a grey area.

    Speaking of grey areas anyone know how to stop grey hairs?

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  13. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    The linked article says nothing about lifestyle changing genes; it only mentions altering the expression of genes. A very fundamental and important difference. And more to the point of this thread, it says nothing about male pattern baldness. It's "possible" that rubbing toads on your head could cure male pattern baldness - but there is no good reason to think so, and the burden of proof would be on the claimant, not the doubter.

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    It's up to you to prove the teapot exists, not to me to prove that it doesn't.

    Saying science doesn't have all of the answers is a juvenile straw man fallacy, and displays a fundamental misunderstanding of what science actually is.

    Patent broccoli and running? If one were to write a book that outlined a diet and exercise plan for restoring your hairline, and it actually worked, it would be a massive best seller, netting the author millions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  14. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    And it is no secret that there are very many people who follow all of the guidelines for living a healthy lifestyle who are still very bald. I'd even hazard that, if it were proven that a healthy diet and regular exercise could prevent or reverse androgenic alopecia, it would probably bring more people around to living a healthier lifestyle than the very real threat of premature heart disease does.
     
  15. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Sorry I dont believe that.

    For example people know smoking is bad for you and can lead to cancer but still ignore advice and puff away.
     
  16. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    People are vain, and vanity is one of the reasons that people smoke cigarettes. We all live in denial of our mortality, and blackened lungs and clogged arteries are not visible when you look in the mirror. But a growing forehead, and a bald spot are. Look at the lengths many will go to try and prevent the inevitable as is. Millions spent on both complete snake oil, and legitimate medications that have unfortunately limited efficacy. Plus the hair transplant industry, which, as noted earlier in the thread, is very expensive, has a degree of risk, and won't work for everyone. Oh yeah, also toupees. If it were as simple as eating right and exercising, yes, I think keeping your hair could trump avoiding an early death.
     
  17. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    You guys are aware that the connection between being castrated (no testosterone) and baldness goes back to Aristotle Hippocrates right?

    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-12648915_ITM

    Evidence courtesy of a rather unethical (at least by modern standards) Yale anatomist. It's good to know, but I'm glad that such an experiment would not be allowed in our times.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  18. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Like I said, I dont buy it. People dont smoke to look cool. They smoke cos nicottine feels great. They eat junk food cos it tastes great and yet it leaves them looking fat and unattractive. Vanity doesnt change anything.
     
  19. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Do people know nicotine feels great when they very first start smoking? Because most people I've talked to relate stories of being sickened, and even vomiting the first time they tried tobacco.

    http://smoking.ygoy.com/how-peer-pressure-infulences-smoking/

    Apparently, most people begin smoking because of peer pressure. The addiction to nicotine soon follows, and makes it difficult to impossible for them to quit when they've reached an age where peer pressure is no longer so important. So, they keep smoking because of nicotine, but they begin in order to look cool.
     
  20. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    So what if thats how they started? Ultimately, smoking feels great during the smoke. People smoke even with no-one else around. Thats hardly vanity.
     
  21. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    I realize more and more the futility of trying to reason with someone who has no interest in actually considering the matter. How many more years will you go from thread to thread regurgitating cop-out arguments from "scientists" so it saves you the energy of thinking for yourself? Your avatar is a little off though, repoman, you ARE dead - dead inside.
     
  22. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    What matter am I not considering? What evidence have you brought to the table that's actually relevant to the cause of male pattern baldness, or any possible treatment? How are they cop out arguments, and why are there quotation marks around the word scientists in that sentence? You do realize that you're in a science forum don't you?

    Trying to elevate woo such as yin/yang, qi, macrobiotics, feng shui, or any other crackpot nonsense to the same level as actual fact and evidence based ideas is quite futile, and I'd encourage you to quit wasting your time with such.
     
  23. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    Like I said, people will simply have to try it out for themselves. There's nothing to lose. If others insist that the scientists have it all worked out 100%, then good for them. The idea that if exercise and good eating would make someone rich by saying so is laughable.
     

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