group sex, is it rape?

james you contradicted yourself. either its a crime and there for a problem of sociaty or its not. this is for 2 reasons, presumption of innocence for 1. the second has to do with what right people have to delve into someone elses sex life.

few examples: justice kerby
even rudd going to a strip club.

how much say should your employer or the public have over your sex life? should a teacher or anyone else lose there job and be hounded because they are gay? swingers? into S&M? ect

 

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http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25480811-661,00.html

At the time, New Zealand police investigated the woman's claims that the sex was non-consensual, but the investigation cleared all players of wrongdoing.

Detective Inspector David Long, from Christchurch police, said the original investigation involved up to 80 interviews, and was thorough and conclusive.

"I'm completely satisfied that we got full and truthful accounts at the time and that no crime was committed,'' Det Insp Long said.

=======

Her current story:

http://jezebel.com/5252283/australia-abuzz-over-rugby-league-group-sex-scandal

Clare claims that several men rubbed their penises on her face, while others lined up at the end of the bed to have sex with her. Unsurprisingly, even years later, she is still traumatized by the incident. She has been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, and psychiatrists have reported that she has attempted suicide several times. "For years and years afterwards I was drinking a lot, crying a lot and losing a lot of friends and doing quite destructive things to myself and other people," she told the program. "I was so angry and I wanted their lives destroyed like mine was."

 

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Since there was a complaint at the time, I'm not sure that one can say that she is changing her story years later.

Just from the stories I'd say she went with two and got piled on and what started as consensual went south somewhere in the middle. Certainly the beginning of the story looks consensual but the filing the police report is not generally what you do after a fun night of group sex with the team.

So remember, if you want a prostitute, hire a professional. Getting some naive girl off the street only seems cheaper in the beginning.

 

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yep and all the prisionors in gitmo are guilty. no one was ever charged and from your own link the cop said he was satisfied that no crime was comitted. im sorry but if the men were charged and convicted i would be singing a different tune but they havent been and our system is inocent till guilty not the other way around

 

A single teen generally isn't going to have much luck with famous athletes and the law.

Your original claim was that she changed her tune 7 years later, she didn't.

Is group sex rape in and of itself? Of course not. But certainly one gal and a bunch of jocks is usually as suspect as one gal and a bunch of fly boys or any other macho pack. I would expect a lot more parity in legitimate group sex.

So is this another one of those posts where we are supposed to think how horrible it is the poor guy is being unjustly persecuted or something?

If so you should vet you sympathy posts better.

 

How is this group sex and not a gang bang?

If she never said no, then its not rape. Regret doesn't make it rape. If regret made a sexual act rape, then there would be a whole world of people in trouble.

 

Did she say 'no' or 'stop' at the time, or otherwise express that she didn't want to do it?

If she did, it was rape.

 

The standard should be whether or not it impacts your workplace. If a teacher is gay but good at teaching, there isn't any clear reason why his being gay would interfere with his job. If advertisers etc. are complaining, obviously that does impact his job. Are you really wanting to argue that a TV show, for example, should be obligated to keep a host even if he becomes unpopular with the viewers and advertisers?

Just because he hasn't been convicted of a crime doesn't mean that people can't judge him on moral grounds.

 

He had sex with a willing woman. I don't understand what's immoral about it.

 

I agree with you regarding this specific case. But he seemed to be trying to argue that there should be no consequences or judgment for him because he wasn't convicted of a crime, which isn't broadly true.

 

Sorry, but group sex is not a crime in any country I know of. As to the specific case; was the woman pressured into the whole thing? If she was, I can see it as immoral, but unless you have a video camera taping the thing, the 'he says/she says' thing can become a real nightmare; who do you believe? Also, the focus here is clearly with this woman and the people she had group sex with, but what's -not- talked about is whether society's views on the matter could have affected her just as much if not more.

 

I will believe whatever I want to believe and make my decisions as a consumer accordingly.

As a gay pedophile, you should be wary of any political position that wants to punish people for thought crimes.

 

I don't think this is a Yes or No, she filled in Box __________ kind of issue.

The men could have treated her like a piece of garbage and she may have been in too much shock to say 'no'.

Does this mean it was rape?

Possibly not.

Was she willing?

Maybe not.

Can it be OK if a kind of public figure loses his job over acting like an asshole and treating a woman like a piece of shit?

I think so.

Imagine you are 19, or someone meeker than you if you are always tough and say no whenever you feel no. A famous person takes you to a hotel room. You have sex and then other famous men appear. You are uncomfortable, they talk about you like you do not exist. These men could overpower you while brushing their teeth and playing hopscotch. You are scared, ashamed, frozen. It is assumed you will let them fuck you. They do.

Is this rape? Actually I think it is.

Is it a rape that should lead to a conviction. Probably not.

Am I OK with the guy losing a job?

Yes, I am.

 

bells, i find it facinating that this morning her female friend came out and said that she was excited that she got to have sex with so many famous men. Do i place much weight on that? not really because they dont report the background of it either.

As for "they treated her like a piece of meat" would you like to have a look at some of the S&M stuff? seriously, piece of meat is quite an acurate depiction of it and yet no one argues that its not consentual (for the majority of it i mean, not the random sociopaths who actually abduct, rape and kill there victoms).

Im sorry but the police investigater didnt come out and say "we were stone walled and though we think there was something wrong with this case we dont have enough evidence" He said (as quoted on this thread) "we investigated and interviewed 80 witnesses and we belive that we got the truth in this case and there is no evidence that a crime took place" (if that quote is slightly wrong i apologise but its on this thread).

As for being a roll model that is the argument which was used to FIRE both a gay and a lesbian teachers from my partners high school simply because the principle found out they wernt straight. Its a REALLY bad precident when unproven allegations and things which are simply not crimes start to become reasons for being publicly and proffessionally atacked.

Rember justice kerby, rember rudds strip club incident (though those really backfired on the then goverment). Rember that once you open the door to legal actions being cause for public and proffessional atack you open the door to the 2 teachers who were fired because of there sexuality (at a PUBLIC school i might add).

Criminal actions SHOULD be procuted, legal actions shouldnt be.

 

Most of the SM community is even more explicit about what they want then the outside vanilla world. They have to be. Of course consent problems happen, but there tend to be stop words and before and after talk sessions, at least until they get some rhythm together, ha ha. It is a culture. And generally the people know the culture they are coming into.

A 19 year old, or even an older person, may think, oddly enough that sex is about affection, or at least a kind of friendly attraction. I'll bet if he had come out of the bathroom in leather with a whip she would have known immediately she was with a guy who had different ideas about what he wanted for sex than she did.

Not a good example. The phrases alleged gay should not make sense. being gay should not be seen as immoral or something one is accused of. Being a prick is another story.

That door is already open and it's another door.

but he's not being prosecuted is he?

 

in most countries you can walk past an old person who has fallen down in the street and not help them and it is quite legal to not help them.

might be OK to fire people who do, though.

I mean these guys are young strong. They can find another job.

Who has a right to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars for running around with inflated dead animal?

A fantasy that this was important got them these ludicrous jobs.

So people being disappointed in them as fantasy figures seems fine justification for them losing those jobs.

A lesbian who can teach isn't doing anything wrong and has a useful skill.

 

Crime, as a general rule, is generally taken to mean what is illegal. As far as I know, group sex isn't illegal anywhere. I think your message would be better conveyed by saying that in your view, it is immoral, so as not to confuse your personal belief with the law.