going into someone elses dream

the universe is supernatural

According to physics a black hole or point singularity forms when a supermasive star collapses on it's self.

I submit that the mass of the universe is greater than the supposed mass of any of these stars. And yet the big bang theory would have us believe that the mass of the universe coalesced down to a point and spontaneously exploded.

If we accept this then we must conclude that either the laws of physics were suspended for this event; or we don't really know enough to make the laws of physics; or we are in or on the opposite side of a black hole.

“Yes, which includes God and spirits, because the very nature of god and spirits are contradictory to the laws of physics, hence, considered supernatural”

Exactly which laws of physics preclude the existence of sentient beings that exist as either energy or gaseous possibly plasma forms.

But the topic of this thread is going into another person’s dreams. So if we can agree for the sake of discussion that the nervous system can act as antenna and the brain a transmitter/receiver. Then if you can tune either naturally or mechanically to match frequencies then it would be possible to set up the communication lines necessary as to whether the subjects could interpret each other I don't know as I am not sure that each brain processes data in the same way.

with respect
.

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:m:

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"Anyway, it just doesn't seem logical that sentient entities are floating around us at any time and we cannot sense them or they have never been SCIENTIFICALLY documented, but people's fears or desire's continue to perpetuate the stories...
It is just very interesting”

When some one senses these entities it is fluffed off as superstition or lunacy. And mainstream science is throwing out the documentation because it is screwing up their hypotheses; and the only place to find it is in the raw data. Further more any documentation presented to said scientist would be disputed and disregarded, as it will still harm their published works.

All we can do is dig through old raw data, and declassified government and military reports and do the best to process make patterns and draw conclusions, write reports and post with raw data

With respect

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Ellimist, Man you need to chill! You said yourself that you think too scientifically, not that there's anything wrong with that, but maybe it's too much. After all, how can you have science without test subjects or something, or someone, to run experiments on. Look at him as a test subject. Science has to start somewhere. It is an action... an ongoing thing.

If you don't have anything to go on, then you don't go anywhere!
You need an imagination! That is what has given us everything we have today... that and a need or desire.

 

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catch 22

Nightjar

If ones religion is science then one will fanatically fight against any postulation that one thinks threatens it. The irony of this is SCIENCE was brought about to find the answers to questions that religion was failing miserably at. As the first scientist formed their postulations they where labeled as heretics. As science develop into prominence the hierarchy which wanted to control the minds of the masses infiltrated the infrastructure of science gaining coveted key positions from which to control the search for knowledge and hence the minds of the masses.

It is very interesting when one collates what is labeled as Forbidden, demonic, satanic, heretical, knowledge with that modern science labels as fanatical, superstitious, paranormal, occult, bull shit, non-sense, and bolder-dash. This coincidence is strange in the least. For science to work one must analyze all available data while suspending your personal beliefs; then after postulating your hypothesis derive a way to test the data and find away to collect more verifiable data.

In closing if science is ones religion then one will fall prey to the traps of religion. If science is the method which one uses to explore the universe and beliefs one will find that both will be expanded exponentially.

With respect

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Again... scientists do not disregard contradictory evidence. I cannot emphasize this enough. If there is contradictory evidence, they change the hypothesis or theory or whatever they are working on to fit the evidence. Only theologians and philosophers, etc. change the facts, or add new or disregard them to meet their preconceived notions. It is very important that you all understand this.

Quote: "So if we can agree for the sake of discussion that the nervous system can act as antenna and the brain a transmitter/receiver. Then if you can tune either naturally or mechanically to match frequencies then it would be possible to set up the communication lines necessary as to whether the subjects could interpret each other I don't know as I am not sure that each brain processes data in the same way. "

The nervous system and brain cannot transmit or receive any infomation without being linked to

a. mouth
b. eyes
c. ears
d. skin
e. nose
f. neurological devices...
Which are all within the limits of physics...

What has yet to be shown is communication of information without any of these, directly from brain to brain. It has been tested extensively, with no conclusive results in favor of communication between two people, without the use of basic sensual faculties.

And if you(anyone) is so sure that it has been shown these types of things can happen, I would like an explanation as to why the whole of the scientific community, colleges, teachers, and the world, does not recognize "going into others' dreams", "telepathy", "psychokinesis", and everything else, as real phenomena.
That is the only thing I want answered: if it is, in fact, real, why do so many disbelieve it, even when shown the supposed evidence that the supposed studies purport to have?
(of course, this question is based that you(anyone of you) are correct, and the denouncements of most of the studies were dismissed by everyone)

 

this thred
Yes, people often do dismiss evidence that falsifies their hypothesis. In science, if that happens over and over again... the hypothesis is wrong. If it is wrong and proven wrong, it will not be published, which is why you will never see those words.

"It has been my experience that when people don't know the answers they label. The labels used are unnatural, supernatural, paranormal, superstition, occult (which means secret knowledge)."

Yes, which includes God and spirits, because the very nature of god and spirits are contradictory to the laws of physics, hence, considered supernatural.

WHAT LAWS OF PHYSICS DOSE THE EXISTANCE OF GOD AND SPIRITS CONTRADICT!

WHAT EMPRICAL PROOF THAT PSI DOSE NOT EXIST!

IN THE 1400's MILLIONS OF LEARNED PEOPLE INCLUDING SCIENTISTS BELIEVED THE WORLD WAS FLAT!

WHAT EXPERIMENT HAS PROVEN CONCLUSIVLY THAT PSI POWERS DONT EXIST.

I MISSED THE HEADLINES AND SPEICAL REPORTS ON TV AND RADIO!

I HAVE WALKED THIS FOR 42 YEARS!:bugeye:

 

@Ellimist

That’s easy to answer. Because it does not happen every day, because it doesn’t happen to everyone, it cannot be forced, it depends on chance AND it does not leave traces afterwards (although I believe it could be measured while ongoing). Look at my answer before the “AND” and you will see that this part of the sentence could also be applied to a traffic accident. You could not stage a traffic accident a second time in exactly the same way as it has happened before at random. It’s the same principle. Of course, in a traffic accident (which is only a basically two-dimensional phenomenon) there ARE traces. Otherwise it would also be quite difficult to believe.

Rest assured (sideglance at grimreaper

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) :
if I hadn’t those things happen to me, I wouldn’t believe them, either. I have also never talked about it in real life…

 

heyya dreamer29

if it was realy possible then who would do it and for what reason?
if such a feture of evolution did exist then it is most likely that it would be bred out because of the sheer number of people with bad intent and intent to do harm.
so in a darwinism and natural evolutional concept it would not
be able to be developed because all those who could do it would be targeted as unatural just like the witch hunts of old.
people are still in the same mentality now as they were then.
its just that technology and greater need to form collaborative selfishness has allowed more diversatiy so far.

what ya think?

groove on

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Grimreaper said: "WHAT LAWS OF PHYSICS DOSE THE EXISTANCE OF GOD AND SPIRITS CONTRADICT!
WHAT EMPRICAL PROOF THAT PSI DOSE NOT EXIST!
IN THE 1400's MILLIONS OF LEARNED PEOPLE INCLUDING SCIENTISTS BELIEVED THE WORLD WAS FLAT!
WHAT EXPERIMENT HAS PROVEN CONCLUSIVLY THAT PSI POWERS DONT EXIST.
I MISSED THE HEADLINES AND SPEICAL REPORTS ON TV AND RADIO!
I HAVE WALKED THIS FOR 42 YEARS!"

Mind if I do points?

1. you are 42 years old and have believed this your entire life? wow.
2. Laws of physics the existence of gods and spirits contradict? where should I start?
a) Newton's laws, defying gravity
b) defying motion-physics
c) popping in and out of existence, an entire being? damn(esp. greek gods)
d) not being able to be measured by any device(cold spots and flashes of light are not evidence of ghosts)
e) entropy, power, thermodynamics, chemistry, geology, paleontology, archeology(ref. burning bush, Noah's ark, other things...www.skepticsannotatedbible.com)
f)Thermodynamics, again... all three laws.----must emphasize

3. Empirical proof that psi does not exist? No, that is the biggest error you could have made. It is called the burden of proof, you cannot push it off onto the opposition. You made the extraordinary claim that psi exists. I ask you to prove it, as of yet, that has not been accomplished.
(This is where I need people to understand how empiricism and science works. You do not do experiments to disprove a claim, you do them to prove a claim. If the experiment does not arrive at a conclusion that supports the claim, then the hypothesis is wrong.)

4. Millions of people, well actually most humans, including scientists BELIEVED the world was flat. Indeed, they did, didn't they? Shall we go through the errors in this logic?
a) Believed. Do you understand what belief is? Did they ever check their beliefs? Did they try to go around the world? No, because they were so immersed in their little worlds of gods and the catholic church, that they ignored that Aristotle had proven the world was round back in 500 BCE. Columbus was the first in European history to use the roundness of the world.

b) And millions of learned people, who by the way, were only learned by their current science and knowledge... compared to know when we have been studying psi for over 60 years with not conlusive proof... Anyway, tangent, sorry... the millions of learned people also believed that sea monsters really existed where mariners would draw them on maps where they haven't been in the ocean. It is not that they are wrong, they just didn't have enough information, ignorance is all. Such that, today, new age people ignore what science has to say.

5. "What experiment has proven conclusively that psi powers don't exist?" Ha, indeed, very good question, but you are slightly backwards, here... the question should be worded as, "What experiment has proven conlusively that psi powers do exist?"
This goes back to my third point, in that it is not science's responsibility to prove that psi exists, it is up to the proponents of it to provide evidence, as it is said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

6. there has been nothing in the mainstream public media about the study of psi, because companies don't want to lose credibility, like Fox did when they aired that moon hoax show.
___________________________________________________
Damn, that was fun... now on to sparkle...

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"That’s easy to answer. Because it does not happen every day, because it doesn’t happen to everyone, it cannot be forced, it depends on chance AND it does not leave traces afterwards (although I believe it could be measured while ongoing). Look at my answer before the “AND” and you will see that this part of the sentence could also be applied to a traffic accident. You could not stage a traffic accident a second time in exactly the same way as it has happened before at random. It’s the same principle. Of course, in a traffic accident (which is only a basically two-dimensional phenomenon) there ARE traces. Otherwise it would also be quite difficult to believe."

This seems a little dodgy, sparkle.
Let me get this straight, k? The general public or the whole of society, whatever you want to call it does not know about psi powers because what?- it does not happen every day, doesn't happen to everyone, it cannot be forced, and we don't know when it will happen? Wow... that is really dodgy.
Well, let's see... earthquakes don't happen everyday, they don't happen to everyone, and they cannot be forced, and we don't know when it will happen, and often, there are no effects(no destruction)... OH MY GOD, EARTHQUAKES ARE PSI PHENOMENA!!! You are completely right! I was going down the wrong path my whole life... HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I am sorry, I cannot go on... I cannot stop laughing, I'll catch you all later...haha...

 

Good luck for further majoring

Well, Ellimist, continue laughing. I myself cannot believe that someone majoring in Physics still sees Newton’s Law as something eternally valid. It has serious flaws and does (for instance) NOT explain what gravitation is. Newton (now you should shudder, ggg) in all seriousness explained gravitation as “breath of god” (!). When his fellow-scientists asked him for a scientific foundation for his formulas, he delivered his famous sentence: “I don’t do hypothesis!” (sorry, if it doesn’t match with the Original, I translated it from my language). He was content that his formulas worked in our little world, and so was Einstein. Einstein, when trying to calculate gravity between two entities, received (instead of Newton’s constant) the value Zero. Heard of Hüseyin Yilmaz? I myself find Louis Le Sage’s theories much more plausible, but as a major of physics you must be familiar with those.

Two points to my accident-metaphor:
1. You omitted the important word AND and what follows after.
2. So CAN you invoke the same earthquake for finishing your incomplete measuring (for example)? This is what scientist want people who had psi-like encounters – repeat them, if possible under laboratory conditions.

 

Correction

I think in English you say gravity instead of gravitation. Sorry for the mistake.
sparkle

 

Do you really think that in a time of ruling religions that science would not be permeated with religious ideas? And do you really believe that because Newton mentioned god, it makes CALCULUS less real?

And you THINK that Sage's stuff is more "feasible"? So what, who cares what you think- it doesn' t matter your opinion in science.

Most of your rambling is incoherent, I cannot respond to it, it does not make sense... But, from what I can tell, you are basically saying that psi powers cannot be tested... yet you still think it is true... Unless you can rationally explain your position with understandable sentences, I will ignore your "thoughts" from now on.

 

Science could learn from me alots but I dont care if the world is going to find out anything from me as it couldnt be done by other people (practice) so whats the bother about it!






Shine on you crazy diamond!

HE HE HE HEE HEE HEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

What characterizes a true scientist?
He is able to CONVINCE others of his/her opinions.

By the way, Ellimist, it is Le Sage. LE (!) Sage. Le is part of his name. (Le is sometimes part of French names. France is in Europe.) It’s not incoherent rambling, as you see it. Everything has a meaning. Even LE.

 

sparkle... I am under the impression that you are, in fact, retarded. Not the general meaning of retarded, but, indeed, mentally handicapped. You know nothing of science, and when you are corrected, you disregard it, as of this moment, as I forewarned, I am now ignoring you, for I am afraid your stupidity will cause me frustration.

 

Well, little bro (Ellimist) I am under the impression you are not up to your word. You remember : you PROMISED to ignore me. That's what you should do with retarded people. Good luck for trying,

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I belive I hurt Ellimist fealings.

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with respect

 

you misspelled "GOOD scientists WHO FOLLOW THE RULES OF SCIENECE AND NOT THE TRAIL OF GRANT MONEY, do not disregard contradictory evidence."

There is the ideal, and then there is reality. The belief that no scientists "massage" their data to get it to match their hypothosis is foolhearty. Scientists are not godly, they are human, they make mistakes. Sometimes they are aware of the mistake while they are doing them, most often to secure another round of funding (sometimes these people will justify their misrepresentation of the data by thyinking that they can 'fix' the errors in the second round of experiments, once they have secured another grant to cover this second round). Gills on human fetuses? Piltdown man? the Brontosaurus?

Fraud Happens.

 

Some things cannot be tested conclusively via the scientific method. Please scientifically show me the documented presence of the spacial 4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th, and 10th dimentions.

According to string theory (one of the current leading models of the universe), they exsist, but there is only logic and anecdotal evidence of their exsistance. it cannot be tested in the laberatory under controlled conditions, because until we can figure out a way to "open" one of these other dimentions, we cannot access any of them in a lab. However, it may be possible to access them through wormholes and such folds/holes in space. Largely accepted as at least possible, such folds in space are currently non-creatable, non-controllable, non-testable, and non-proven. But scientists still talk about them as if they were fact.


What is the difference between psi- ability and a wormhole? Both fall into the realm of possible according to math and current physics theory, though neither of them can be effectively tested. Why is one ok, and the other not?

 

The difference? Psi-ability is documented by lay-persons, often illiterate (natives) and proving by their lifestyle (frugal) that they are “stupid” under modern definition. Psi-abilities mostly require another state of consciousness that needs to be acquired or is said to be inherited by few people. Many times the psi-able person needs to live his/her life completely different from that of other people – it’s a difficult and sometimes lonely life.

A wormhole does not “not exist”, it is just “not discovered yet”.

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It is documented by scientists who use terms and develop thoughts only few are willing and able to understand. Science can be done in the normal state of consciousness, it bases on exercising of the cognitive side of people. A wormhole carries hope for practical things – time travel. Doable for everyone without having to completely change their lifestyle.

People prefer the easier way. And yes: fraud happens. On both sides.
But in the same way a scientifically ungifted person can still become a scientist, ahemm, an ESP-ungifted person can also acquire some psi-abilities. It’s up for everyone to try.