something else to read something else to back up my first point about a God of justice and judgment......please read "Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. God is a just God! Often I hear Exodus 34:7 quoted; "maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.", with the question: "What kind of justice is it for God to punish children for their father's sins?" Yes, children might face consequences from their parent's sins, that's part of living in a fallen world. But from the rest of Ezekiel 18 we see that God treats each person according to their actions, if a parent lives in sin but their child lives righteously, the child will live. No matter what a person's parents have done, they can still make the choice to live righteously and accept Christ, and they won't be condemned because of their parents. If you sometimes wonder about God's justice, I want to encourage you to read the rest of Ezekiel 18 to see how God is just to each person by their actions." sorry if I've gotten off topic a little...but I'm just backing up my points Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
^^ i never thought people would be...hrmm...."stupid"?.....enough to imprison their identities with such extreme handles. religious people almost stereotype themselves.
Re: The King of Babylon Did I say Satan? Actually, I believe the name I brought up was Lucifer. But anyway, yes - I do believe that the Jesus character was patterned after the "King of Babylon" in Isaiah 14 and the "King of Tyrus" in Ezekiel 28. You don't have to read anything you don't want to read, of course - but as you correctly predicted, here I go... I'd like to begin with Isaiah 14:10-19: 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. This passage seems to be talking about a man who was also a fallen celestial being, and who has become weak like us (see John 1:14). This would be a man whose aim was to ascend into heaven and become like the most high (see Matthew 26:64, John 8:57, 10:25-36), but he would be brought down into hell (see Ephesians 4:9-10, 1 Peter 3:19); this would be a man who would cause the earth to tremble (see Matthew 27:51); this man would also be cast out of his grave like an abominable branch (see Matthew 28:6; also, Jesus was allegedly a descendent of Jechonias - the abominable branch whose seed could not inherit the throne of David - see Matthew 1:12). By the way, in the KJV, the Hebrew phrase heylel ben shachar was translated to Lucifer, which is the Latin word meaning "Light-Bringer" and was used to refer to the Morning Star. Could this Shining One be what Paul met up with on the road to Damascus (see Acts 9:3-7; see also John 1:5-9)? Also, in Roman culture the Morning Star was considered to be the son of Aurora, goddess of the dawn. Oddly enough, Jesus identifies himself as the bright Morning Star in Revelations 22:16! That will have to be enough for tonight, considering that I have to get up for work in about 7 hours. Hopefully I'll be able to continue tomorrow. Until then...sleep tight. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Define "unconditional" Then please explain how this loving God could hate Esau: Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
More contradictions from God... Then please explain why David and Bathsheba's first child died: 2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 2 Samuel 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. 2 Samuel 12:15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. 2 Samuel 12:16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. 2 Samuel 12:17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. 2 Samuel 12:18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead? 2 Samuel 12:19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
My thoughts about religion. It is in my opinion that, all religions have evolved from a single originating religion. The earliest religion, for whatever reason, my just have been a way of life for the inhabitants at the time. When the population started to grow, people moved to new locations and became isolated. As a result, new ideas were formed. These new ideas were based around the original idea or way of life, but each of the isolated groups’ ideas would be divergent form those of the others. Also, each isolated group constructed values and morals to support their own increasing population and technological advancements. Since, these groups will advance at different rates, Ultimately, their ideas would be much different. Today, (Modern Time) nations are not isolated, and religious ideas are shared; argued repeatedly; and fought over again and again. Religious organizations claim that their interpretation of the Divine Being is the only possible interpretation. With this kind of uncompromising attitude, how will we ever achieve global peace? I stated that question because it is one, which many Christians ask. Religionists hoodwink (lead on) that they promote attempts to bring peace to the world through their religion. How can this be true if the greatest cause for dispute is over religion? E.g. (ethnic cleansing) The greatest single act by congress that proved The United States is a free country was the elimination of mandatory prayer, bible study, and portraits of Jesus Christ from public schools. Christians will debate and cry about how this is sick and wrong. It is not the duty of the country to raise children to believe in god; it is the duty of the parents to accommodate their children by means such as private school, home school, or christen school. The Christians need to understand that it is wrong for the country to support a single religious identity. I know the Christians wouldn’t want the Koran to be read, nor would they want their children praying to Allah. It is a compromise, which I stated religionists have a problem with. The First Amendment of the Constitution: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I mostly agree with this. If not one single religion, religions that were all derived for a single reason. The question is whether this single reason is God or Superstition.
Re: Re: Re: Re: ok persol... once again... This is similar to the concept of hell. God gave them exactly what they wanted, what they loved, what they desired, and he gave them a choice. Just as for those who go to hell, as a previous post said, hell is eternal separation from God. We might think, well if that's all hell is, great! I'll choose hell!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Because you don't feel or see any indication of God's presence right? Do you feel or see a neutrino? An electron? A string [string theory]? The dimensions wrapped up on themselves which are proposed by string theorists? No. But would you exist without them? Probably not. You never know how good a thing is until you lose it. Something to think about.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The first child died because they sinned. That child is destined for paradise, as it didn't sin. Jesus didn't sin, He still suffered and died. The question you should ask is does the passage refer to physical death or spiritual death (hell)?
The question you should ask yourself is why anyone should believe this silliness. If you truly want to know if God is love, ask his Asherah. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Apparently it only refers to a physical death until a contradiction is exposed, at which time it can pretty much mean anything you wish. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Im not going to read all replies, but 2 words came to my mind when i read your post: Tough Love. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ok persol... once again... What a wonderful ethical position! I guess next time my 13 yr old nephew comes over I should offer him a shot of j.d. and a smoke... after all I'm giving him a choice to decide what he wants. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please, if you love someone you want what's best for them not just to give them what they desire. Particularly when you know what they want is bad for them. I think I'll just drop by the nearby grade-school and see if any of the kids there would like to play with a pistol for a few minutes. Or maybe drop by the local A.A. meeting with a keg. ~Raithere
