Isaiah 53 referred to a personification of the nation of Israel, not a person. See more at http://www.mindspring.com/~bab5/BIB/l1.htm#Isaiah%2053 It was made to seem a prophecy once it was reused by St. Matthew.
Re: The obvious isn't obvious? It makes perfect sense, particularly given the relative sloppiness of the attempts.
They believe that there is a savior, but that Jesus wan't it. They are still waiting for a savior to come
As far as I can tell, no one was talking about Isaiah 53 at all. I mentioned Isaiah 14 - quite a different passage, I can assure you.
I have a question for any knowledgeable Jewish people out there who could provide some enlightenment in this arena - is the Jewish concept of a messiah the same as the Christian concept of a savior? If not, how are they different?
Yes, it is the same concept. However, the Jewish people expected a military leader to make them supreme over all nations and to bring world peace. "And he [the messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." -- Isaiah 2:4 "But you shall be called 'priests of the Lord', men shall say of you, 'ministers of our G-d'; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory." -- Isaiah 61:6 Christians believe that Jesus died and was resurected and that these prophecies will be fulfilled in the end times. The following link is a website containing a list of prophecies that the Jews believe Jesus failed to fulfill (hence their justification that he was not the Messiah but merely a prophet [at least some say that, others call him a blasphemer]). However, each of these prophecies is related in Revelation and/or Daniel in relation to end times prophecy. All are to be fulfilled during the end times. http://torah.freeyellow.com/18.html
A little digression to be considered for a separate thread: If God created the universe, then he created space/time/matter. Assume - to create something is to be above or outside of it. What would being outside of time be like? Would you experience everything/all at once/forever? Wouldn't this answer the "trans-historic" question? "We now return you to the regularly scheduled program..."
The King of Babylon Not quite. You seriously believe Jesus and Satan are similar in nature? Yikes. Do I have to read the interpretation of how you arrived at that conclusion? I'm sure it will be forthcoming.
Just a point... Just a note on this. In Gen 1:26 God said let us make man. Gen 3:22 God refers to himself as more tha one entity. Alos, again, in Gen 11:7. In the whole creation account. God used 'The Word' to create all things; 'Let there be'. Compare with John 1:1-5.
Re: Re: ok persol... once again... 2 Thessolonians 2:10-12"... They perished because they refused to love the truth and to be saved.[11] For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie[12] and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Looking at the previous verse God doesn't seem to be the culprit after all.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Naturalist's opinion on supernaturalism In one word: Opinion Silly to you, not to others. A supernatural event such as that described in the virgin birth account are not repeatable and presumably one time only events. Not unlike the Big Bang, if it happened more than once, how can we know? Neither of these events requires belief that the event was natural/supernatural, ordinary/extraordinary but it doesn't necessarily negate that it happened that way either.
Re: Re: Re: ok persol... once again... No.. it still says the same thing. The people didn't 'love the truth' so God lied/deluded them more.
God is the antithesis of evil, which is called Holiness, which is defined as moral perfection. He is not more loving that He is Holy, and He is not more Holy than He is loving. Becasue He is perfectly Holy, He constantly wars against all forms of evil, resisting them, and driving them to their own destruction, using any means necessary. In Isaiah 6, the angels surrounding God's throne are calling out Holy, Holy, Holy. They are not saying Love, Love, Love.
Re: Naturalist's opinion on supernaturalism Absolutely true. It's the opinion about a wholly unsubstantiated and unverifiable story of a supernatural event authored by apologists decades after the event. People believe in all kings of silliness.
6-Winged Insects for God Isaiah 6:2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. You have 6-winged angels, the Daoine Sidhe have Pixies, and Dr. Seuss has Sam-I-Am who does not like green eggs and ham. I suggest that children are healthiest when introduced to Dr. Seuss, although the Faerie Kingdom also has a certain charm.
Re: Re: God is love? Originally posted by biblthmp God is the antithesis of evil, which is called Holiness, which is defined as moral perfection. He is not more loving that He is Holy, and He is not more Holy than He is loving. I understand that you believe this, but what is it based on? using any means necessary. But when God has every means at his disposal, why would he pick these?
here this.... previously said by Persol: etc etc....... God isn't just a God of love (which i strongly agree that He is) God is also a God of judgemnet and justice He does not and cannot put up with evil, thats why all those things happen(ed). God isn't just only love, God is also something to be feared. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. That's where the world is wrong. We need to respect God and fear him. Revere Him. Thats why it says in the Bible that we are not to judge because God is the one that judges and justice will be carried out....we are not to take justice into our own hands like most of the world does.
just something interesting to read..... Read this...I'm not sure if its right right right on topic....but I liked it and it has to do with God's love. So please read it. "Humans constantly put conditions on how much they love someone. They say they love you, but if you make a mistake the love is suddenly gone. We all do it. It's kind of hard not to. We are only human. But that's why God's love is so great. Hosea 14:4 is just one of the many examples in the bible of how much God truly does love us. No matter how far we are from Him or how much we've done against Him, He is still waiting for us to turn back to Him. His love is completely unconditional. It's hard for us to truly grasp how or why God would love us so much, but that's where we just need to just stop and trust Him. He proved His love by sending His only son to die for us. All He is asking us to do is love Him back. And when you begin to, you will feel exactly what it's like to be loved unconditionally." Selah
