God is "dead"

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Saint, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    God has appeared before me at least twice. I'm not sure why he hasn't taught me his divine powers yet.
     
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  3. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    arauca, did you read my ^^above^^ Post #8 of this thread?

    arauca, If you do, indeed feel that "It is right to point out to the person of its action . Same as you are doing it to me in your third paragraph." (quoted below)

    arauca, do you care to Post the Passages in said Bible or Book, where it states that name calling and accusations are the chosen method of showing your faith and walking in the Path of whatever Deity you claim to represent?
     
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  5. arauca Banned Banned

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    Thank you.
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Typical bullshit copout of theology, as if God pretending to not exist enables our freedom of choice. How can a situation of deception possibly enable free choice? If one is to make a rational and enlightened choice, one must know the things you are choosing actually exist. Otherwise you are simply making a choice based on ignorance--ignorance of the actual existence of what you're supposed to choose between. If God came down and made an unmistakeable public appearance to the human race, all humans could at last make an informed choice to be on his side or against him. But he doesn't do that, and you know why? Because he's not there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  8. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    never beyond the metonymic however ... this is why in all ontological discussions science becomes useless since after a certain level, references to the macro or microcosm dissappear.


    Then hopefully you should understand why bringing science to an ontological discussion is like bringing a sparkler to the sun.

    :shrug:
     
  9. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think they are finding it so hard with sern, or that underground accelerator?

    Beyond a certain point, science becomes non scientific. So its becomes religious. Even scientists knows quantum physics after a point becomes non scientific.
     
  10. arauca Banned Banned

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    If God in person would come up . humanity will attempt to kill Him again.
     
  11. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    arauca, no thanks are necessary.

    arauca, again I ask, do you care to Post the Passages in said Bible or Book, where it states that name calling and accusations are the chosen method of showing your faith and walking in the Path of whatever Deity you claim to represent?
     
  12. arauca Banned Banned

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    sure , let me have it.
     
  13. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I wouldn't have said it so aggressively, but I'm inclined to agree that God doesn't literally exist.

    The word 'God' obviously exists, along with a whole variety of ideas that people associate with it. But I don't think that 'God' has any existing referrent out there in the objective world.

    I'm less inclined to agree that God is 'dead'. In one sense, he never was alive, so it doesn't make much sense to say that he's died. In another sense, ideas of God still play a big role in millions of people's lives, so God can't be said to be dead in a cultural sense. It's probably true that the importance of God-beliefs in people's daily lives has been declining since early medieval times, in the West at least, as life has grown more and more secular and this-worldly. But I don't expect the influence of 'God' ideas to die out entirely in the forseeable future either.

    If we are talking about personifications like Yahweh and Allah, I'm inclined to agree. I'm an atheist regarding those.

    If we are talking about philosophical functions such as first-cause, source of physical law or ultimate being, I'm more of an agnostic. I don't have a clue what, if anything, corresponds to those.

    I suppose that religious believers would argue that he does. In Jesus Christ's incarnation, in personal religious experience or whatever. But yeah, I agree with you very strongly that if God really did exist, and if he really does care about what we believe about him, then he could be a lot less coy, a lot more straightforward and unambiguous.
     
  14. arauca Banned Banned

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    Very interesting . If I would say any thing in favor of existence of God . Then JaMES R. would come out and say don't preach . So to please to the gods of Sciforum I will say nothing not to offend Sciforum gods
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Is it, really? Science is a practice, it's something that scientists do. With one or two possible exceptions, do any scientists post here? Are the people on Sciforums qualified to do science themselves or even to evaluate scientific ideas (which can sometimes be very counterintuitive)?

    My point is that from the point of view of laymen, who represent maybe 99% of the human race, science is almost as much a matter of faith as religion.

    An argument can even be made that religion demands less faith in authority than science, since people can and do "verify" their religious ideas through their own religious experiences. Science doesn't seem to offer laymen analogous confirmatory experiences.

    There certainly are scientific experiences, laboratory experiments or mathematical derivations, but they are experiences that people can only fully appreciate and evaluate after a long and highly-technical university education. From the point of view of the general public, science looks suspiciously like an old-style initiatory gnostic priesthood. The only difference is that its magic is more likely to work.

    I respect religion as something that's deeply and fundamentally human. It isn't unlike art in that regard.

    I don't think that religion is necessarily anti-science either. It can be, but it needn't be. Many of history's greatest scientists have displayed deep personal religiosity.

    I don't believe that the laughers are typically very knowledgeable about the subject that they're laughing at.
     
  16. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    What they know are the limitations of their knowledge. It's not religious to develop an hypothesis that may be wrong, and test it with experiment. No scientist has faith that an hypothesis is absolutely true if it hasn't been tested. To have religious faith is believing in things based on no evidence, or based on a book.
     
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be silly. James R wasn't punishing your expression of faith.
     
  18. Balerion Banned Banned

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    To choose what, exactly? Belief? I don't see belief as being a theme in Christian mythology. Submission, sure. Faith, yes, but not in his existence; faith, rather, as an action. Belief in premodern times was something of a given, and monotheism at its inception wasn't so much about believing in the existence of one god--there's plenty of scriptural evidence to suggest that Yahweh himself recognizes the existence of a pantheon, and was indeed borrowed from another tradition where other gods existed--but about following one god.

    Belief as a binary proposition seems like a modern concept, so I see no reason to assume God fails to show himself to allow for belief to be of one's own choosing. Such a theory contradicts Christian scripture, as well; God makes many shows of power throughout the books of the Old and New Testaments, and none are intended to be misconstrued. In fact, he goes as far as to physically manifest himself on a few occasions, which shatters the notion that he intends to leave doubt. Doubt itself is actually a large topic in the scriptures, and is considered to be a quick road to destruction.
     
  19. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    ???!!!???

    arauca, would you Please Post the Passages in your Bible or Other Holy Book, where it states that name calling and accusations are the chosen method of showing your faith and walking in the Path of whatever Deity you claim to represent?
     
  20. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Who said a god was actively pretending or being deceptive? Both of these seem to rely on an assumption of a personal god, which is typically self-reported as "revealing" itself to those who espouse it. Most who espouse a belief in a god find plenty of evidence in the world around them for its existence, regardless of whether you arbitrarily limit what you consider evidence to what science is capable of addressing. Only those who espouse some belief can make claims about what it entails, which here excludes you, an atheist.

    We have to make choices all the time based on insufficient evidence, so that argument is a red-herring.

    If a god made an "unmistakeable public appearance" then no sane human could deny its existence, any more than you can sanely deny the existence of the chair you may be sitting in. I.e. no choice whether or not to believe it exists. Or would you like to claim that you can wholly disbelieve your chair exists and still manage to be sane?
     
  21. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Why can't God confirm his existence like you know that you have parents?
     
  22. arauca Banned Banned

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    Ask him.
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    and how do you know that these are your so-called parents?
     
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