# God and free thought

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Patman, Sep 7, 2001.

1. ### teerumRegistered Senior Member

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You obviously are starting a long conversation. But I would say in response that, if there is a God, he would encourage free thought. That is where I separate myself from many religions.

All God would want is that you are GOOD.

3. ### MuliBoypsykyogiRegistered Senior Member

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Ankit, you arrogant bastard...

In your calculation I´d rather put in:
Heart= courage (talent & mental strength) - fear (limitation)

Destiny = Heart + Love

Love (the full basin of energy which multiplies itself upon distribution

)

Living without heart is living without destiny.
Living without love is living without destiny.

In fact one lives as a nonplayingcharacter. A puppet

And no, I don´t really find you arrogant

Free will is options. These options set ones path within a closed system.
Eventually one comes upon the last option which is entering a nodepoint.
The option here is enter, or do not enter.

Not entering is going backwards to fully explore the system one has occupied all along. Entering is moving into the next level, which ultimately is the last option not tried.
The next level is therefore destiny. Free will is just the motions one takes during the journey. The destination is preset

Wow, groovy

5. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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Love is the heart!

Yes, that was really arrogant of you, Ankit...

...

With heart I mean love, and with love in this particular aspect I mean what you feel is right, what your soul wishes you to do, the original feeling of having a meaning and purpose that you were born with, what makes you curious of things.... what you feel is GOOD.

I believe that we have been given free will to be able to follow our hearts in order to reach our destiny.

But that wasn´t so far away from what you had figured out ....

As an experiment though, just to amuse us all, why don´t you try to calculate your own destiny with that equation and tell us the result, and then time will tell if it was right.

And MuliBoy, yes that was GROOVY....as always.

7. ### AnkitThe AngelRegistered Senior Member

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Here we go...

Well, seemingly, as per our arrangement, I have been misunderstood, misdirected and missed almost completely. The following points are vital:

1. At no point did I say that you could calculate your destiny using whatever equation

, just that you could if you wanted to, but that it would be bull. In fact, I said:

"I almost agree with your thesis, maybe you could say:"

So I was merely trying to augment Bebelina's interesting idea(s).

2. What is this? Love? Has someone mentioned love? Oh dear...I can't really comment, because, in all my 16.5 years, I have come close to it, but, with the exception of my writing and music, I haven't actually "fallen" in love (not with a person, anyways).

3. Who here is qualified to comment on love? (I think he/she would be over the age of 35)

4. I could comment on love, but I don't have weeks to while away (cos that's what it would take, I think) at the mo', I've just started college (and it's a bi-atch).

So, reply, and in time, I will misunderstand, misdirect and miss you as per our arrangement.

8. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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Love....

Well Ankit , I´m so sorry that you haven´t had the pleasure to experience it yet, but it will come to you.

But I really didn´t mean the love, or the process of falling in love with other persons, but the universal love . The energy that is the essence of life. The will that the energy has to exist.

I was just kidding when I said that you would calculate your destiny, of course nobody can´t, but it would just be fun to know what the calculation would tell.

Good luck with your studies though.

I´m also studying, at Stockholm University, theoretical philosophy and just made a test today and I am very relieved that it went well, or it felt like that anyway....

And don´t listen to anything that MuliBoy says, he´s evil and will only try to deceive you!

...

9. ### Chagur.Seeker.Registered Senior Member

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Bummer ...

I love humanity so much I could almost cry ... It's just the people I hate!

10. ### MuliBoypsykyogiRegistered Senior Member

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266
Yup, used love in the same meaning as Bebelina put forth. When you "fall" in love, remember not to swim. Float

And the word "hate"... trying to eradicate it from my vocabulary. A word to harsh to use in any circumstance. Pure malice and destructiveness.

smurf

11. ### TwilightRegistered Senior Member

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Bebelina

What does love has to do with free thought ?

12. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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Everything!

Since love is the driving energy in all life, and therefore thought too. "Bad" thoughts are just manifestations of a feeling of fear, that is however also a very compassionate, but harsh way to learn. But sometimes neccesary for those who are unwilling to learn through love.

13. ### TwilightRegistered Senior Member

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beware

It is indeed remarkably, Bebelina, that you've found something to believe in with such strenght. After all, we are nothing if we don't have faith, one way or the other.
The point - in my previous reply - was that too often love makes us exaggerate/underestimate the nature of things (therefore love doesn't have much to do with FREE will...). Many people are not that innocent and they will hurt you if you let them. They don't believe in love the way you do... this couldn't lead to anything good.
Are you willing to make THAT sacrifice?

14. ### teerumRegistered Senior Member

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66
So much all of have said that I do not know where to start. However I guess I can just pick it up, where the thoughts of universal LOVE come in.

The question that comes to mind, is......is "Love" more than some mystical or chemical reaction in our brains? I would assume from the replies that we should believe it is.

I LOVE that idea, I really do because I have felt it, as it seems some of you have. I am not talking about the love of ONE to another, I am talking about the Love of ALL. The love of one to another is a result of a focused compilation of the Universal LOVE that we ALL have building inside of us. We find someone to "take it out on" so to speak, because we need to release it.... and THAT is a beautiful thing. OF course sometimes the Other may not want all of that love energy.......and our hearts get broken.

Love is not a mystical imaginary force, it is an ever builiding, fighting presence that is sometimes difficult for some to discern.

15. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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And also trust.

You get what you give, always. Not that you are nice to your neighbour, and then we he doesn´t hear you talk behind his back, you still expect him to be nice back to you. It´s the honest intention that matters.
Twilight, what you are talking about is similar to the warfaring countries weapon strategies. It´s all fear. You can chose to be frightened and only concern about your own well-being in fear of getting hurt. But you can also chose to trust people to be good. Then again, what you give is what you get.

But there are so many different situations involving different people, with different karmic purposes for their physical lives and evolution of their souls. So no rule applies to all.
Except for love, the universal love that is the source of all life, not the everyday infatuation between and among genders.
Which of course is also very important and one of the true treasures of this physical existence. But love as a force fighting for "Good" , is my meaning of the word in this context.
There is no sacrifice to be made but to give up fear. Are YOU willing to do that, to gain a more harmonious physical experience?

Worry is fear. Anger is fear. Hatred is fear. Jelousy is fear. Greed is fear.
I think you get the point by now....

If one person lets go of fear, then others will follow as a result. And that is what is happening now. People are waking up and seeing the physical reality as for what it is, a learning ground. Which can be a pleasant or non-pleasant experience, depending on how we chose to interact with it. What intention we have.
Free will is all you have. That is the point. Will you chose to have a loving intention, or a fearful? Free will is the link between your heart and your destiny.

I have a feeling now that a question regarding wether children that are starving to death, sick people or poor people can be considered to have free will, or?

But I can answer that later, if you are interested and if you can´t come up with the answer yourselves.

16. ### TwilightRegistered Senior Member

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that would be enough

No answers are needed, 10x. Don't loose your time with ppl from the 3rd world any more.
End of discussion.

17. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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I have a feeling that you became angry with my reply.
Why is that?

18. ### TwilightRegistered Senior Member

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I believe "God" is a generic name for whatever we believe in. But if we stop and think a bit, we realise that all those things we believe in reduce to just one... you called it "Love", I call it "Evolution" and so on.

From this point of view, I think that "God" encourages free thought because He\She\It is a result of our thinking.

That's all.

19. ### teerumRegistered Senior Member

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Bebelina,

I have read through your latest longer reply and I must say that, in many ways we are on the same path in regards to (to drastically shorten the topic) "Love"

However, I am at a bit of a loss when you say 'if we need any other answers because we do not know ourselves, you will answer it for us.

I love to have these discussions, however please keep an open mind, Bebelina, truly we all have beliefs and feelings, however if we begin to presume we have a definative answer, we are putting ourselves above what is.....to great for us to really understand.

You mention Fear as something that is a standard reason for people to lack love or run from it so to speak. To some degree I would agree with you, however, don;t you think that maybe some are not afraid, they just do not know "how to love" or they do not need to love, they might have no use for it.

It would be nice to teach someone how to love, but some just do not want to. ................ whether it be to someone else or to existance.

20. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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I sense a slight misunerstanding here.

I really wish I was better in explaining my thoughts in words that are also understandable for others. But For "Gods/he/she/it/evolution/love/Piccachus" sake, I´m from....SWEDEN!!!

Twilight, I respect your belief. My belief is that "whatever its name is" is the energy that we all consist of. Our collective consciousness, not just human, but the Earthly, planetary, universal consciousness too. The consciousness and energy of all that is. And all that is , is ( in my opinion) not only built up by human thoughts alone, they are a minority in the creative process, because we are so largerly outnumbered by other forms of existance. But nevertheless, very important, and have access to the consciousness of all that is, if we WANT it.
But then , I´m only human, so what do I really know?
Everything or nothing, can it be both?

Teerum, what I meant by my last statement, that if you are interesting in knowing I will tell you, or something like that. Was strictly about the eventual misunderstanding about the existence of starvation, war and other malices.
And what I will offer is of course nothing but my opinion, as always. I don´t claim to know the truth about everything, that would be baaad. Unless when I´m joking, but then I think I do it so obviously that it´s hard to miss.

But I´m always willing to give my best guess!

Abot love and fear then, as the two major feelings and opposites in the human consciousness.
Those who claim to have no use for love are those who needs it the very most, don´t you think? They are very insecure and afraid on the inside and puts up a hard fasade to try to cover it. But the harder and the more well polished the fasade is, the more obvious the longing for love becomes.
So how can one bring more love to the world? Start with yourself and examine your intentions within the world. And be nice to the angry people, because they need it! Then you would teach them how to love, if they have forgotten what it means.

And hug and tickle strangers!

21. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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The people in the 3rd world...

...wars, illnesses and other manifestations of love and fear.

First, can fear be a manifestation of love? It´s like asking if all is good, then why do "bad" exist? To remind us of what good is.

The people that are acting out fear in shape of wars, for example , are doing so on a higher soul level, to teach us about compassion. The same goes for those children who are starving to death, or being beaten to death and all the other horrible acts you can imagine, are to teach us about compassion and love. The physical world is physical and what takes place here leaves physical marks upon our physical bodies as upon our non-physical souls.

To care, to help others, to love. Many are sacrifying their physical bodies to let us become aware of this. And how we become aware is to within the physical world try to help, and within our minds have an intention to love and help, even when physically not being able to do so.

And of course there are also individual purposes within the collective. The starving child may have been a rich selfish bastard in a previous life, and this is karma doing its job. But why does karma exist? To teach us the effects of our lives. So by becoming the starving child, that soul gains another perspective of existence that it previously lacked. And even better, if others become aware of this child and its situation, they can gain a very positive experience by helping it. Which will also reflect itslef on that souls karma in a positive way.

And the warrior will always become the victim.

22. ### TwilightRegistered Senior Member

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loooool

Some people need 2 years to learn how to talk and more than 50 to learn when to shut up.
But again... what do I know? I'm only human, no? Maybe Piccachu would understand you better.

23. ### Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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Twilight

Should I take this as you didn´t understand one word of what I was saying?