Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by some_guy01, Oct 5, 2001.
Now this is a big damn iceberg!
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Reckon we could get an ice cube or two for our drinks?
Off and on you hear of studies done with the idea if we could move something like that mass of ice to someplace where we could pump it to a desert like the Sahara that we could make a green farm out of the desert. That is one heck of a mass of fresh water.
The best solution is to find a way to spray a thin film to reduce the evaporation. Then tug it close to a desert land mass. Then use some big ass pump to pump the fresh water to a man made lake. It will be cheaper than desalination projects.
Follow up, Antarctic Ice Shelf...
720 billion tons is not right. It is actually 72 billion tons... Click on the link for a little movie with comment...
Staggering end to Antarctic ice shelf
U.S., British researchers tie rapid collapse to warming trend A NASA satellite image shows the thousands of icebergs created by the Larsen B ice shelf collapse. Brownish streaks are rocks and glacial debris exposed from the former underside and interior of the shelf.
By Miguel Llanos
March 19 — A massive Antarctic ice shelf has collapsed into the sea, shattering into thousands of icebergs and alarming researchers by the speed with which the process unfolded. Described by one researcher as “staggering,” the rapid collapse offered fuel for the debate over whether global warming is to blame.
‘We knew what was left would collapse eventually, but the speed of it is staggering.’ — DAVID VAUGHAN
British Antarctic Survey scientist U.S. AND BRITISH government agencies confirmed the collapse of what’s known as the Larsen B ice shelf. Some 1,255 square miles of the ice shelf disintegrated between Jan. 31 and March 7, the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center reported Tuesday. “The shattered ice formed a plume of thousands of icebergs adrift in the Weddell Sea,” the center said, adding that over the past five years, Larsen B lost nearly twice that amount and is now about 40 percent the size of what it used to be.
Before it broke apart, the shelf was 650 feet thick and about the size of Rhode Island.
Scientists with the British Antarctic Survey first predicted in 1998 that it would eventually collapse, and satellite images over the years suggested as much. The process accelerated over the last month, with the single largest piece calving on March 5.
720 BILLION TONS
David Vaughan, a glaciologist with the British Antarctic Survey, noted that since the 1998 prediction, “warming on the peninsula has continued and we watched as piece by piece Larsen B has retreated.”
“We knew what was left would collapse eventually,” he said in a statement, “but the speed of it is staggering.” It’s hard to believe, he said, that 720 billion tons “of ice sheet has disintegrated in less than a month.”
The U.S. center noted that 720 billion tons is enough ice for 29 trillion 5-pound bags.
The British Antarctic Survey said its scientists would be researching when such an event last happened and which ice shelves are threatened in the future. Earlier studies found four other ice shelves had been retreating in recent years.
The researchers emphasized that ice shelves themselves would not raise sea levels because they were already floating in water. However, because shelves hold back ice sheets on the continent, their collapse could allow ice on the ground to slowly move into the sea, thereby raising sea levels over time.
‘CLOSER TO THE LIMIT’
Ted Scambos, a glaciologist with the National Snow and Ice Data Center, said in a statement that the Larsen B collapse “gave us the information we need to reassess the stability of ice shelves around the rest of the Antarctic continent. They are closer to the limit than we thought.”
“Loss of ice shelves surrounding the Antarctic continent could have a major effect on the rate of ice flow off the continent,” Scambos added. The center, located at the University of Colorado, noted that the next shelf to the south, the Larsen C, “is very near the stability limit, and may start to recede in the coming decade if the warming trend continues.”
“More importantly,” it said, is what might happen with the giant Ross Ice Shelf, the main outlet for several major glaciers draining the West Antarctic Ice Sheet — which is 6,000 feet thick, covers an area the size of Mexico and contains enough water to raise global sea levels by 15 feet.
“The warmest part of the giant Ross Ice Shelf is in fact only a few degrees too cool in summer presently to undergo the same kind of retreat process,” the center said.
New cracks in Larsen B were observed in the weeks prior to the sudden collapse.
GLOBAL WARMING DEBATE
Both the U.S. and British agencies attributed the collapse and other retreating shelves to warmer temperatures over the last half century.
That would fit in nicely with arguments made by environmentalists and many scientists that manmade emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are causing global warming. Greenpeace, for one, called the collapse “a harbinger of global warming.”
The weakening of the Larsen B ice shelf was first noted in the late 1990s. This 1997 photo shows people dwarfed by one fissure. Others, including some scientists, say it’s possible that any warming is due to natural shifts, not manmade causes, and that further studies are needed before taking global action to reduce emissions.
The agencies did not enter the debate over what has caused the warming around the Antarctic Peninsula.
The British Antarctic Survey limited its observation to earlier studies that found the peninsula has warmed by 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit over the last 50 years — much faster than global warming worldwide or even in other parts of Antarctica. The peninsula is the Antarctic area closest to southern Argentina and Chile.
The National Snow and Ice Data Center said studies had estimated that Larsen B had existed for at least 400 years and probably since before the end of the last major ice age 12,000 years ago.
“This is the largest single event in a series of retreats by ice shelves in the peninsula over the last 30 years,” the center said, attributing them to “a strong climate warming in the region.”
In comments to MSNBC.com, Scambos was careful not to tie the collapse to manmade emissions of greenhouse gases, and noted that computer models actually predicted different regional effects from those gases. But he added that the collapse was so sudden in geological time that it’s not clear it was due to natural causes either. What’s needed, he said, are improved computer models, more sampling of ice cores for climate changes and continued tracking of ice shelves and sea ice.
“The tools are there,” he said, “we need to apply them.”
COOLING IN SOME AREAS?
Other studies have actually suggested some Antarctic areas might be cooling.
One study reported new measurements showed the ice in West Antarctica was thickening, reversing earlier estimates that the sheet was melting. The Antarctica Peninsula extends from West Antarctica.
New Iceberg Breaks Off Shelf
Chunk of Ice Peeled From Ross Ice Shelf
The Associated Press
May 9 — An iceberg 47 miles long and 4.6 miles across has broken off the Ross Ice Shelf in the Antarctic, the National Ice Center reported today.
The giant sheet of glacial ice and snow was named C-18, meaning that it's the 18th iceberg to be tracked in that section of Antarctica since 1976, when record keeping began.
The iceberg, floating close to the ice shelf, is not considered a hazard to navigation. It was spotted on satellite images.
The discovery comes just under a month after a much larger iceberg — 40 miles by 53 miles — broke away from another part of Antarctica. That iceberg is known as B-22.
Also in March, a large floating ice shelf in Antarctica collapsed. The 1,250-square-mile section of the Larsen Ice Shelf collapsed during a five-week period that ended March 7. It splintered into a plume of drifting icebergs.
Meanwhile, however, new measurements indicate the ice in parts of Antarctica is thickening, reversing earlier estimates that the sheet was melting.
Scientists reported in January that new flow measurements for the Ross ice streams indicate that movement of some of the ice streams has slowed or halted, allowing the ice to thicken.
Researchers don't know if the thickening is merely part of some short-term fluctuation or represents a reversal of the long retreat of the ice.
That report, in the journal Science, came less than a week after a paper in Nature reported that Antarctica's harsh desert valleys — long considered a bellwether for global climate change — have grown noticeably cooler since the mid-1980s.
The National Ice Center, based in Suitland, Md., provides worldwide ice analyses and tracking to assist the military and private shippers.
It is a joint operation of the Navy, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Coast Guard.
basic science by By Harvey Augenbraun, Elaine Matthews, and David Sarma postulates of global warming evidences. Might help?
I think antarctica is being heated from underneath by sub-ice volcanos being created. link to:
i really hate to be so 'catastrophic' i just call 'em like i see 'em also.
They say its not really happening!
<b>quote:</b> <i>Check out:
basic science by By Harvey Augenbraun, Elaine Matthews, and David Sarma postulates of global warming evidences. Might help? "</i>
Yes, it did help to get near the truth. The NASA page is a nice example of how some "scientists" do their "science". Although they mention water vapor as the main greenhouse gas, they didn't mention the heat retention potencial of each gas (95% for water vapor) and 3,5% for CO2. If they mention these figures, it would undermine their arguments and make their agenda useless.
They also show a table with natural and anthropogenic sources of gases, but in the "natural sources for CO2", <b>they show a blank space!</b> Even Bert Bolin, head of the IPCC, has demonstrated in his studies that adult forests and jungles have a huge contribution of CO2, in fact, they have a <b>negative balance</b> of CO2, this is, forests and jungles produce more CO2 than their absorb from the air. And, what about CO2 produced by volcanoes, forest and prairies fires?
There are many other unscientific claims in the study by Augenbraun, Matthews and Sarma, but it would be too lenghty to show them here. The article is full of "half-truths", and when a scientist does not tell the <b>WHOLE</b> truth, he is <b>LYING</b>. He is avoiding data and facts that would contradict his hypothesis. One basic rule of science: <b>"A Half-truth is a Whole-Lie".</b>
But thanks for the link. It was really useful.
Consensus or not?
Odin, yours was also a good link. It shows us that there are many well respected scientists that are skeptical (to be kind) about global warming and the "prophecies" manufactured and manipulated by the computer models. Here is the last part:
<i>"Environmental groups were quick to dismiss the scientific skepticism on global warming. Ariana Silverman, a spokesperson for the Sierra Club's Global Warming & Energy program, disputed the panel's claim that climate science does not support the Kyoto Protocol. " ... "It is very difficult to make that claim. <b>There is a consensus in the scientific community,</b>" Silverman said.</i>
Well, the scientists mentioned in the first part of the article show that <b>there is no such thing as a "consensus" in the scientific community.</b> Or perhaps Silverman was referring to the "<b>green community</b>"?. Besides that, in science there have never been consensus on anything while the discussion was going on. Even Darwin's Evolution Theory is still being debated and you would find many different "consensus" according to the group of people you talk with... Cheers!
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"A Half-truth is a Whole-Lie".
As I said earlier,there are a lot of people making a living out of this,I think thats why we get these half truth's.
Also there are lots of people who want to be saviors,so will jump on any band wagon!
There are also people who see what's actually happening. Maybe it's cause of global warming, maybe it's cause of aeral heating, maybe it's just humans that cause it. There are much to many humans walking 'round this planet anyhow. All these humans want to eat, thus want meat, which come from cows and pigs, to mention an in between street. This "walking meat factories" produce gasses, which go up in the air. Just one example of many, many more.
People want to make money, no matter how. Till that's over and that day will never come, we are getting half truth's.
jumping onto the philosophical band wagon I would say that we, human beings are Half-Truths. Until someone discover the truth of our existence down here, we'll remain as half-truths.
Nothing to do with global warming, though...
I think I'm going for a nice cold beer.
I excist, therefor I am. No half truth, fact.
Has nothing to do with global warming. Except maybe for being one of the reasons for destroying the planet.
Warming it up I mean.
Yeah! Galileo was put on trial because he disputed the "fact" that the Earth was not the center of the Universe.
So you <b>are</b>. What are you? Do you know what you are? Completely? Or there are some things that you don't know about yourself. There are in you things that sometimes surprises you. So what you know is a half-truth. You'll get to know yourself completely the day you die. But then it will be too late for regrets.
Maybe you feel you are destroying the planet. Are you more powerful than a comet or an asteroid, or the sun becoming a nova?
How presuntuos of you to believe you can destroy the planet....
BTW: this will enrage you, but the global warming theory is a fraud. And a cheap one. Perhaps you are not a half-truth after all. Maybe you are a half-joke.
That is not what I meant dude. I mean, I am a human being, therefor I am part of the destruction if the half-truth comes true.
Maybe I am a half-joke in your eyes but a half truth in the eyes of others. That makes me half a joke, half truth. Not bad, better than nothing at all.
Is global warming a fraud? If you say so, it must be half a joke and half truth.
A Heat Wave Devastates India's South; Hundreds Die
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
HYDERABAD, India, May 17 — India baked today in a heat wave so intense that mud huts became as hot as ovens and birds in trees dropped dead, villagers said. Temperatures 7 percent above the already hot normal have killed more than 600 people nationwide this month.
Officials described the temperatures exceeding 115 degrees as "a natural calamity."
Most of the deaths have occurred in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh, where temperatures have reached a record 124 degrees, said D. C. Roshaiah, an official in charge of relief work in the state.
Many victims were elderly and so more susceptible to the extreme temperatures, said Rajshekhar Murthy, a health worker in the state's Guntur district, where 102 people died.
P. Vijaylakshmi, a farmer in Kovvuru, a village in a remote corner of Andhra Pradesh, described the hottest day, May 10, as the worst day of his life.
"There was no place to hide," he said. "Even the dirt floor of my hut felt like an oven."
Heat waves struck Andhra Pradesh in 1996 and 1998, but this year has been the worst, state weather officials said. The state is the fifth largest in India, with 76 million people.
Mr. Murthy, the health worker, said the number of dead would have been higher had local officials not issued warnings and supplied extra drinking water to the poor.
"The administration sounded a warning a week in advance," said Poonam Malkondaiah, an official in West Godavari district, where at least 50 people perished.
"People were told not to venture out of their homes, especially around noon when the heat wave reaches its peak," she said. "If there were compelling reasons to go out, they were asked to cover themselves."
The capital, New Delhi, and other parts of northern India have also been sweltering.
Sixteen people died in the desert state of Rajasthan as temperatures climbed to 117 today.
Meteorologists attributed the problem to scorching desert winds from the northwest, not the greenhouse effect or deforestation.
"Heat waves always precede the monsoon rains," said R. Rajamani, an environmental expert in Hyderabad. "They induce the moisture to come in." Monsoons normally arrive in southern India in early June, and in the rest of the country over subsequent weeks.
It snowed up where I live yesterday or the day before. I don't live far up north so we thought it was pretty wacky.
Pollux, it has been in the 70's the last few days. It's more likely that you saw nuclear fallout than snow.
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Antarctic Ice Shelf Vista
Credit & Copyright: Helmut Rott (U. Innsbruck)
It's all gone but the mountains. Most of the sprawling landscape of ice that lies between the mountains visible above has now disintegrated. The above picture was taken in Antarctica from the top of Grey Nunatak, one of three Seal Nunatak mountains that border the Larsen B Ice-Shelf. The other two Nunataks are visible in the picture taken in 1994. Over the past several years large chunks of the 200-meter thick Larsen B Ice-Shelf have been breaking off and disintegrating. The cause is thought to be related to the local high temperatures of recent years and, possibly, global warming. Over the past few years, the area that has disintegrated is roughly the size of Luxembourg. As ice-shelves break up, they unblock other ice sheets that fall onto the ocean, raising sea levels everywhere. Scientists are watching the much-larger Ross Ice Shelf, which, if it collapses, could cause global sea levels to rise five meters.
Wet1, how difficult is for you (and most other people) to understand that the Larsen shelf (and other ice barriers) have <b>collapsed</B>, not <B>melted</B>. The <b>cooling</b> that has being going on in Antarctica during the last 25 years produced such a <b>gigantic ice mass</b> that, finally, overwhelmed the resistance of the ice shelf borders and plunged the ice mass into the waters beneath. A purely mechanical reason.
Global warming has nothing to do with it, because <b>there is nothing like "warming" going on Earth</b> --as demonstrated by ALL satellite and radiosondes measurements since they began recording temperature measurements, decades ago. If there is something, as shown by the satellites, it is a slight trend towards "<b>cooling</b>".
BTW: nice picture, but it does not add a bit to the warming argument...
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