"Global Warming" is becoming "Climate Change"...surprise surprise

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Cazzo, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    I've noticed in the last year or so, more so recently, that "human caused" "global warming" preachers are instead referring to it as (human caused) "climate change"......

    This was so predictable. As temperatures have actually been cooler the last couple years, cooler winters, the "human caused" global warming conspiracy preachers are trying to save face. Now they're trying to basically say ANYTHING the climate does is "a result of humans". It's now (human caused) "Climate Change".....

    Same with their predictions on hurricanes. When hurricane Katrina hit, they predicted more and worse hurricanes. The following 2 years there were NO major hurricanes that hit the U.S. .... Did the "human caused" climate "experts" admit they were wrong, of course not.

    So now Al Gore and the "human caused" "global warming" conspirists are preaching (human caused) "climate change". They cherry pick severe weather cases, wild fires, and other bad events, and link them to humans.

    So if humans are responsible for anything the weather does (in particular the bad things), what was responsible for the weather before humans arrived on the scene ?

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    What caused massive wild fires, terrible hurricanes, and global warmings 1,000,000+ years ago ?......
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
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  3. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

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    The problem with the term "global warming" is that some AGW skeptics intentionally misrepresented that term as meaning the Earth is getting hotter everywhere, every day, all year round. That is not what the term "global warming" means. The misrepresentation is a straw man. This in turn invites red herring arguments such as "it's snowing in England."

    What "global warming" does mean is that the world-wide, yearly average temperature of the Earth is increasing. Global warming does not preclude some places on the Earth from getting colder than the historical average for that locale. In fact, climatologists say some places on Earth will get colder precisely because the Earth is, on average, getting warmer. In this sense, climate change is a better descriptor than global warming. That this climate change is caused by global warming remains the operative concept.


    I consider myself an AGW skeptic. The red herring and straw man arguments coming from some on the anti-AGW side do not help ("with friends like that, who needs enemies?")
     
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  5. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    didya read that
    Cazzo? - even your own side thinks you are a moron
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
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  7. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    I've never said that AGW proponents say "Earth is getting hotter everywhere, every day, all year round.", nor has anyone else I know of.

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  8. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    Another person resorting to personal insults....
     
  9. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

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    Saying so directly would be extremely stupid because it is directly refutable. Instead, those who refute AGW with illogic rely on the rampantly stupid public to make that illogical assumption. That global warming means that the Earth is getting warmer everywhere, every day is the implicit implication every time someone attempts to refute AGW with news of snow in the United Arab Emirates or England, news of a cold winter in the northeast US, etc.

    Those local stories are red herrings. To refute AGW you need to address the science directly. Attacking Al Gore doesn't cut it; Al Gore is not a scientist. Presenting a news story about some weird cold weather in some particular doesn't cut it; AGW does not preclude cold snaps. In fact, it predicts that some areas will get colder.
     
  10. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    How's what I said "illogical" ? You've put words in my mouth twice now in attempt to make me sound like something I'm not, that's about it.

    It's amazing how hostile some people become that support the AGW theory when anyone refutes them..
     
  11. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    No
    Cazzo - its an observation - the fact that you are insulted when someone calls you out for behaving like a moron is no concern of mine
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  12. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

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    I did not yet say you are attempting to refute global warming with illogic. Some people with a widespread public audience (e.g., Limbaugh, Hannity) most certainly do. Some people on this site most certainly do (e.g., [thread=90105]this thread[/thread]).

    I'll say it now: The OP is full of red herrings ("What caused massive wild fires, terrible hurricanes, and global warmings 1,000,000+ years ago ?"), deceptions ("As temperatures have actually been cooler the last couple years, cooler winters"), and complete falsehoods ("Now they're trying to basically say ANYTHING the climate does is 'a result of humans'. It's now (human caused) 'Climate Change'"). You are arguing against global warming with illogic. Examining the claims in the OP,


    What caused massive wild fires, terrible hurricanes, and global warmings 1,000,000+ years ago ?
    That is irrelevant. It is a red herring. Climatologists do not say that nature itself is incapable of wreaking havoc. (What Al Gore says is irrelevant. He is not a scientist.) We know that the climate has changed a lot throughout history, and by a lot more than AGW will change things. That the Earth's climate has gone through huge changes without the help of mankind is irrelevant. The real question is whether the Earth's climate is now undergoing changes with the help of mankind, and if it does, what are the impacts on mankind?

    By way of analogy, consider soil erosion. We know that poor farming techniques lead to soil erosion. Saying we should do nothing about erosion because nature itself causes far more erosion (e.g., the Grand Canyon, the Missoula Floods) than does mankind is irrelevant and is a red herring. The real question is whether human farming practices cause erosion, not whether millions of years of erosion can create the Grand Canyon or the sudden end-of-ice-age release of a huge impoundment can wipe out vast portions of Eastern Washington.


    As temperatures have actually been cooler the last couple years, cooler winters ...
    Deception. That is not why some AGW proponents have started using the term climate change in lieu of global warming. Global warming says that the Earth's climate (not weather) is warming, and that we are the primary cause. Our recent "cooler winters" are cooler than recent, but only in comparison to the records set within the past few years. Compared to winters of a few decades ago these "cooler" winters are still quite warm.


    Now they're trying to basically say ANYTHING the climate does is "a result of humans". It's now (human caused) "Climate Change"
    Falsehood. The predominant paradigm remains global warming caused by humanity.
     
  13. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    Obviously making personal insults is, or you wouldn't have made that comment to begin with.

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
  14. Headspin Registered Senior Member

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  15. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

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    The most important thing to remember here is that humans are capable of creating global changes. We are also capable of repairing the environment. We are able to identify problems on a global and local scale. Now, that being said, humans are increasing in population. This means more demand for resources and energy production... and land. We are capable of turning the entire planet into a living machine.

    Whether or not we ARE responsible is not the question. It is better to assume that we are creating the problem and chill out. We have only been collecting true environmental data since radar and the national weather program. We have soil and geologic records to also help estimate with certainty the temperature of past climates. Many human records exist giving rainfall amounts and temperature for centuries.

    I have studied weather and climate for the last 4 years. The huge limiting factor is the deficiency of computer processors. The earth is enormous, we are small. Computers will never be strong enough to correctly guess or calculate environmental processes. We must assume that we are a problem.

    Let me ask you: how were the rivers and streams poisoned and toxified? Was it natural? How were CFCs released into the air? Do we need more electricity? NO, we simply want it to excite our greedy desires. More and more people are being born everyday and the land will suffer. Soon after, many will die. Those who wish to destroy our earth will be the very ones who die for not knowing how to live with thier surroundings.
     
  16. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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  17. Headspin Registered Senior Member

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  18. Headspin Registered Senior Member

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    they were? all of them? or are you doing your "assuming" again?

    seems like you want to be the one who does the culling.
     
  19. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong again
    Cazzo (I guess you are used to it by now).

    My concern is the the yawning chasm between hw smart you think you are - and how smart you really are - so pointing out to you when you are behvaing like a moron ( strictly defined: A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years ) is more like kind paternal advice. coming from me.

    So far all of your posts on climate change have shown a similar grasp of the facts - a similar intellectual level - a similar propensity to distort the truth or swallow and quote sources that do - and a similar shreiking victimised tone - as a creationist attempting to rebut evolution.
    I know what their excuse is - what's yours?

    While I'm sure you go down a storm on GodGunzNGlory.com or whatever site it is that you and your far right extremist buddies hang out on these days - but we are way to smart to fall for it here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  20. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    Resorting to personal insults for a 3rd time in a row again.....
    Now I'm a "far-right extremist" to boot....

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    Perhaps you're upset for pointing out some facts you don't want people to hear ?
     
  21. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    That's it, you've got us. The only way anyone could possibly be convinced about global climate change is if all dissenting facts are suppressed. The IPCC have tracked your IP address, and are sending hit men even as I write this.
     
  22. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    Pleaseeeeee

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  23. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    Cazzo - you have not presented any facts - you have - as always - presented Op-Ed - and very poorly thought out (if even thought out at all) Op Ed that you present in a manner so lacking in any intellectual merit or critical thinking that you portray you intellectual capabilities akin to that of an average creationist - heck even your own side (which includes myself to a certain degree) finds your posts quite laughable in their idiocy, paranoia, and alarmism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009

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