Fundamental versus Moderate Islam

Its not a claim, its a belief. You're welcome not to believe it.

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I'm not going to make claims based on epidemiologic data, but I'm not going to pretend it does not exist either.

 

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Japan:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=17135492&query_hl=16&itool=pubmed_DocSum

 

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food related in qur'an (allowed-halal- and prohibited-haram- ):

- prohibited pork (and others ) : 2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115
- seafood (allowed) : 5:96, 16:14, 35:12
- sharing food : 5:5
- horse is for riding (so not for food?) : 16:8
- eat anything when not prohibited : 6:119
- When already allowed, don't self-prohibit : 3:93, 5:87, 5:103, 6:138, 6:139, 6:140, 6:143, 6:144, 7:32, 10:59, 16:35, 16:116, 66:1 (general, not specifically for food, just regarding 'halal' - allowed - and 'haram' - prohobited)
- Not too much (excessive - for food and others) : 6:141, 7:31
- food are various : 13:4
- how to kill animal for food :6:118, 6:119; 22:36

 

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Well , that's why I stipulated "clean" pork. Lets face it, eating chicken with H1N1 (killed >100 million people) would be a hell of a lot worse than eating pork and eating beef with BSE may also be a hell of a lot worse. The correlation study you posted is just that, a correlation. And it's a 20 year old study on stats from the 1960s, it was written on a total of 1.5 pages and never followed up on in 25 years! It's in the Lancet, the MD's can publish too journal, and is probably crap.

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An increase in ice cream sales in NY is correlated with an increase in murders in NY. Surely it's obvious ice cream sales does not affect murder rate! But they is a statistically significant correlate (the related factor is warm weather).

It's OK to not know.

But this thread isn't about the question: Does religion make people a better person? It's what does a Moderate Muslim think in regards to A B C D .... Which I really want to know the answers too. You see, to me, I would assume a fundamental Muslim would say (with ease) yes a there is punishment for some people in the afterlife and reward s for others. I would also assume that a fundamental Muslim would say with ease, yes it is wrong to eat pork and as for Monkey ... (maybe ok maybe not?)

Yeah, I think decreasing meat intake it defintaley a hgealthy choice. Actually, I don’t really eat much meat – I grew up pretty much a fishtarian.

Michael

 

PS: Reza, my ex-Muslim turned atheist buddy (yes way before he met me) said he absolutely thought pork was so disgusting to eat. It’d be better to eat crap. Of course he was raised in Iran until the age of 19 (he’s 36 now). Then he moved to the East and then to AU and now he LOVES to eat pork! Loves it.
“I’m addicted to pork! See, I love it man” (those were his actual words

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So would this be a correct summary so far:

- Islam is the best religion.
- In an ‘Ideal’ world everyone would be Muslim.
- If ‘true’ Islam is followed the society will be a perfect one.
- Muslims are NOT rewarded in the afterlife for Martyrdom.
- Homosexuality is NOT a sin and is perfectly fine within Islam.
- Reincarnation is not true and does not happen.
- The Bahá'í faith is incorrect, Bahá'u'lláh was not a Prophet (perhaps a good teacher).
- The Xian faith is incorrect; Jesus was not the Christ (but was a Prophet).
- Religiously, it is acceptable for anyone to believe anything they like.
- All Abrahamic Prophets (including Mohammed) were sinless.
- Mohammed never advocated killing anyone under any circumstances at all. Never.
- To kill a human is a sin.
- Hindus religious belief is in some manner incorrect.
- Buddhist religious belief is in some manner incorrect.
- It is a sin to destroy other people’s religious idols.
- Sharia Law is no different than Secular Law.

- Distinguishing non-Muslims from Muslims in regards to taxation is good.

- The Qur’an is not crystal clear as to if eating pork is OK or not.
- The Qur’an is not crystal clear as to if eating Monkey is OK or not.
- The Qur’an is not crystal clear as to if some people will be punished in the after life.
- The Qur’an is not crystal clear as to what Hell-Fire is, nor if it should even exist.

Does this seem right so far?

Michael

 

Hi Sam,

I had some more question, if the above was OK so far?


Do you know if Atheists can go to heaven?


Assuming that the following people reject that Mohammed was a Prophet and that Allah is the One God; Do you know if Buddhists or Hindu will get to go to heaven?

In you opinion, are the Bible and/or the Torah in error in some manner? That is, is there something (anything) that is not perfectly correct about them?

If so, how do you suppose that this came to be? [That is, how did they become corrupted?]
Do you think that Satan could have had a hand in some manner in corrupting the Word of God so that humans would be led astray?

Are males and females equal in ALL things under God?

Of the following, could you order those that you suppose are most closely aligned to the true Islamic belief (leave out any that you don’t know much about). Before you suggested that Wahhabis are incorrect in much of their beleif so I will assume they are near the bottom?

Sunni
Shia
Sufis
Wahhabis
Kahrijites
Ismailis
Zaidis
Fatimids
Nizari
Alawis
Druze


I hope I'm not troubling you too much

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Take care,
Michael

 

That's not the way I do things. I judge claims based upon their evidence.

To ensure you don't make claims but just state evidence-less beliefs kindly put "I believe.." at the beginning of your statement.

 

Converts are usually the most extreme practitioners, wouldn't you say?

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I thin it would be intersting to look at the prevalence of flu epidemics in areas where there is pork consumption vs areas where there is not.

I do know that people who work with pigs are recommended to get flu shots.

Swine flu is believed to have killed several million people in the 1900s (around 20 million?)

Pigs have an interesting physiology:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/fluviruses.htm

 

I think I've already clarified my opinions here.

You seem bent on putting your own construction on things, so I'm not going to argue anymore.

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I believe you're an ass.

 

You can't actually put people into good or bad categories based merely on the sect they came from. Saddam was a Sunni, so was/is? Osama bin Laden. Off hand, I'd say there are good and bad people in all sects of all religions so its not a given that following a certain ideology makes you a better person.

Muslims don't argue over religious differences (at least the clerics and scholars don't) among themselves, because no one can claim to have the final word on the right way to practice belief. Even all Christians and Jews are not same.

The Bible and the Torah are not the ones who decide what people will do, its the people who ultimately will decide. There are atheists who think some people are better/worse than others too.

Males and females are equal partners. That means they complement each other. This is completely separate from what they are able to do should have the freedom to choose to do if they wish. Its not written in the Quran anywhere that women should not benefit from education or not be permitted to work. The Prophet's wife Khadeja was herself an educated businesswoman whom he consulted on his matters.

As for atheists, there is a verse that says, those who believe will believe whereas those who are kafirs will continue to remain so.

Atheists cannot go to heaven. They don't believe in it.

 

Or country?

They can't ride flying purple dragons, either. And it will continue to remain so.

 

Or religion?

Well maybe not purple dragons

 

Of no worth to anything. My point.

 

Hi Sam, I didn't know we were arguing? I did want to make a list of moderate Islamic beliefs. That would of course entail me asking some questions - which somehow led to an argument

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As for pork, the reason I put it as such was because we seemed to be going round and round. Honestly, you needn’t come up with a scientific reason why pork is not suitable to eat, but just have simply said: As far as I am concerned God doesn’t want humans eating pork.

Done.

Well, I would have liked to continue but really it’s too much. I’m sorry if this somehow came to make you feel boxed-in or belittled in any way. OK, screw the list!


Well, I’m off to have a picnic and enjoy a free Opera in the Domain

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Wow two Opera’s in one week!!

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A Mandarin announces that any prince seeking to marry the Princess Turandot must first answer three riddles. If he fails, he must die. The latest suitor, the Prince of Persia, is to be executed at the moon's rising. In the crowd is Timur, banished King of Tartary, who is reunited with his son, Calaf, whom he thought died in a battle. The Prince of Persia passes on his way to the scaffold and the crowd calls upon the Princess to spare him. Turandot bids that the execution proceed. As the death cry is heard, Calaf, transfixed by the beauty of the Princess, strides towards the gong that announces a new suitor. Turandot's ministers, Ping, Pang and Pong, try to discourage Calaf. Timur and Liù (who is in love with Calaf) also beg him to reconsider, but he strikes the gong and calls Turandot's name. Ping, Pang and Pong lament Turandot's bloody reign, hoping that love will conquer her icy heart and peace will return. They think longingly of their distant country homes, but the noise of the populace gathering to hear Turandot question the new challenger brings them back to reality……


Take care,

Michael

 

A pointy ass. How *yawn* worthy.

 

You could just forego this blithering idiocy and tell me how pork is unhealthy.. Heh, whatever's your poison.

 

Well sorry I could not adjust my opinions to satisfy whatever criteria it is you have in mind. I gave them as I saw them.

Have fun at the opera.

 

Maybe you're verbally challenged, a visual person?

Let me try to oblige. I'll even skip the big words.

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Some interesting habits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia

Yummy!