Friends getting religious

Yet more speculation, this time sexual:

The process of sexual selection in thinking animals is clearly very complex. In humans, it seems to be strongly associated with how useful a person is to other people in their family and their society. It follows that the drive for a purposeful life is as natural as the drive for sexual intimacy.
 
Or how about religious:

Every person has a purpose that is preordained by the supreme being that creates people. The supreme being won't tell you plainly and unambiguously what that purpose is, but it did create you with the urge to have your purpose, so that you have a chance at discovering what your preordained purpose is.
 
More religious speculation:

The supreme being that creates people wants us to be useful, so it gave us the urge to have a purpose. The particular purpose you choose doesn't matter (as long as it falls within certain parameters that were revealed to certain people long ago and later written down in various ways). Your real purpose is to choose a purpose, and to be able justify your chosen purpose and your pursuit of it to the supreme being when you die.
 
Yet more religious speculation:

There are two opposing supreme forces that created the Universe and everything in it. We call them good and evil. At the end of time, of force will triumph over the other. The winner will be determined by the amount of souls they have collected. Humans are created for the purpose of determining whether a soul is good or evil, and ultimately for deciding whether good will triumph over evil.
 
So, Sam. Why do you think that people feel the need to live a purposeful existence? Do you know, or do you speculate?
 
scifes said:
purpose is to get better ..
you can't have a purpose if everything is alright with you..then there would be no need for change---->purposeless..

exactly..
die is worse..hence live is better..

so we have purpose..

i agree it's an animalistic purpose for those who have it only, but it's enough for them to hang to..
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Then God has no purpose.
 
StrangerInAStrangeLa said:
Not all atheists have a need for chocolate biscuits.
Some may even lack a belief in them.
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:eek:

You.... you HERETIC!

Roast (and grind, sweeten, cook, then eat) the unbeliever, in the name of the Great Cacao (sugar and cream be in it, on it, and around it, now and forever)!
 
Pete said:
Who says the universe is purposeless? I certainly find it useful.
A purpose can be given to a thing, regardless of its original designed purpose or lack of one. Haven't you ever used a knife as a prying tool, or a stick as a poking tool?
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So the purpose of the universe is designed by man, who needs a purpose for the purpose of having a purpose? And this is evidenced by everything that man understands about the universe being purposeful?:confused:
 
Pete said:
Yet more speculation, this time sexual:

The process of sexual selection in thinking animals is clearly very complex. In humans, it seems to be strongly associated with how useful a person is to other people in their family and their society. It follows that the drive for a purposeful life is as natural as the drive for sexual intimacy.
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What is "natural"?

Pete said:
Or how about religious:

Every person has a purpose that is preordained by the supreme being that creates people. The supreme being won't tell you plainly and unambiguously what that purpose is, but it did create you with the urge to have your purpose, so that you have a chance at discovering what your preordained purpose is.
Click to expand...

Pete said:
More religious speculation:

The supreme being that creates people wants us to be useful, so it gave us the urge to have a purpose. The particular purpose you choose doesn't matter (as long as it falls within certain parameters that were revealed to certain people long ago and later written down in various ways). Your real purpose is to choose a purpose, and to be able justify your chosen purpose and your pursuit of it to the supreme being when you die.
Click to expand...

Pete said:
Yet more religious speculation:

There are two opposing supreme forces that created the Universe and everything in it. We call them good and evil. At the end of time, of force will triumph over the other. The winner will be determined by the amount of souls they have collected. Humans are created for the purpose of determining whether a soul is good or evil, and ultimately for deciding whether good will triumph over evil.
Click to expand...

None of these apply to atheists.

Pete said:
So, Sam. Why do you think that people feel the need to live a purposeful existence? Do you know, or do you speculate?
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Because everything in the universe has a purpose. Nothing happens that cannot be traced back to a cause at some point, even if not immediately visible. Its the fundamental basis of research that everything can be explained and understood in the context of a process, rather than a random event.

I believe that is why humans seek patterns in nature. One could suggest that if you look for something you may find it even if its not there. Except that all human understanding of nature has been through understanding these patterns of the universe. The universe is predictable, once understood.
 
S.A.M. said:
Because everything in the universe has a purpose. Nothing happens that cannot be traced back to a cause at some point, even if not immediately visible. Its the fundamental basis of research that everything can be explained and understood in the context of a process, rather than a random event.
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Therefore no gods.
 
S.A.M. said:
What is "natural"?
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Please refer to a dictionary.

None of these apply to atheists.
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Well spotted!

Because everything in the universe has a purpose. Nothing happens that cannot be traced back to a cause at some point, even if not immediately visible. Its the fundamental basis of research that everything can be explained and understood in the context of a process, rather than a random event.
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You seem to be confusing "cause" with "purpose". "Purpose" implies a conscious attempt to achieve a particular end, although the word is often used loosely when there is no conscious intent. This points to the survival instinct of suspecting intentionality for any occurrence until proven otherwise.

I believe that is why humans seek patterns in nature. One could suggest that if you look for something you may find it even if its not there. Except that all human understanding of nature has been through understanding these patterns of the universe. The universe is predictable, once understood.
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I agree that the consistency of the fundamental laws of the universe is likely to be the underlying reason that we seek purpose in life.
 
Pete said:
Please refer to a dictionary.
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No, I want you to explain it.

Well spotted!
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:bugeye:
You seem to be confusing "cause" with "purpose". "Purpose" implies a conscious attempt to achieve a particular end, although the word is often used loosely when there is no conscious intent. This points to the survival instinct of suspecting intentionality for any occurrence until proven otherwise.
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No, I am not confusing cause with purpose. I believe that there is a reason why anything happens, you can examine anything and understand the process of it. A process requires a cause and a result. A consequence. A purpose.

I agree that the consistency of the fundamental laws of the universe is likely to be the underlying reason that we seek purpose in life.
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What is a "fundamental law of the universe"?
 
S.A.M. said:
So the purpose of the universe is designed by man
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Any purpose for anything is chosen by whatever uses it with the intent to achieve an end. A thing might have any number of purposes, which might be the same or different for each user of that thing.

So I assert that the universe and anything in it doesn't have any single well-defined purpose, only what is ascribed to it by whoever or whatever uses it.
 
Pete said:
Any purpose for anything is chosen by whatever uses it with the intent to achieve an end. A thing might have any number of purposes, which might be the same or different for each user of that thing.

So I assert that the universe and anything in it doesn't have any single well-defined purpose, only what is ascribed to it by whoever or whatever uses it.
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Does this include the fundamental laws of the universe?

Isn't it inherently contradictory to say the universe has no purpose when the only way to understand it is by assuming that it does?
 
SAM said:
What is "natural"?
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Coming to be in the normal course of things, without the need of (say) contrivance, divine intervention, or anyone's special effort.
SAM said:
Because everything in the universe has a purpose. Nothing happens that cannot be traced back to a cause at some point, even if not immediately visible. Its the fundamental basis of research that everything can be explained and understood in the context of a process, rather than a random event.
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How does the second part there relate to the first?

Are we to take "purpose" as something inherent in any causal sequence of events? Anything with a cause has therefore a purpose? That's not the usual meaning of the word.

How does "process" exclude "random event"?

And how is it a fundamental basis of research that nothing is a "random event"?

This all seems more or less terminally confused. Maybe if you started by asking, rather than assuming, whether everything in the universe has "a purpose" - - -
 
Maybe if you started by asking, rather than assuming, whether everything in the universe has "a purpose" - - -
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Try it. See how much it increases your understanding of the universe to assume that things happen for no reason.
 
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