France Just Made Street Harassment A Crime

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by cluelusshusbund, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Where is Paddoboy he would be against it☺
    Great idea...hope any revenue goes to womens shelters.
    Alex
     
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  5. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    It might do as much harm as good. Seems much too difficult to prove & enforce.

    <>

    I responded before reading the article. My initial comments concern catcalls & other verbal harassment & not everything mentioned in the article.

    Next to last paragraph :
    The legislation passed just days after a French woman named Marie Laguerre posted a shocking video of a street harasser slapping her after she told him to shut up. The unidentified man rushed towards Laguerre, threw an ashtray at her head, which just barely missed her, and then struck her in the face. The attack received international attention, with many people calling for a crackdown on street harassment.


    I hope France did not need this new law in order to charge that man with aggravated assault & to consider a charge of assault with a deadly weapon.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I'm against such harassment, but this punishment for free speech is unconstitutional.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I'd have to see how it was implemented. If it is an expansion of the laws against assault, no problems. If it makes it illegal to say something to a woman that makes her uncomfortable, then I'd be against it.

    "He asked me if I had any change. It made me uncomfortable! Arrest him."
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Harassment is characteristically repetitive (according to Wikipedia). One unwelcome comment doesn't really qualify.
     
  10. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You're already not allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded theater or "ambulance" in a crowded law school.
     
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  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    But five or six, persistently delivered, would.
    There's going to be a "reasonable person" standard built in here, somehow. Nothing wrong with that.
     
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  12. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think "I think you're hot" puts anyone in danger, even if it is wrong. Not every moral outrage needs a law.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Neither does spitting on their shoes, spreading dogshit in their path, or whispering in their ear as they walk.
     
  14. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Those are forms of assault, they are not mere words.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, "I'm going to rape you" is "mere words" but is also illegal (rightly.)

    But I agree with your larger concept - physical attacks (spitting, putting dogshit where they are walking) are very different than saying "I think you're hot." The former is assault, period. The latter is criminal only with combined with other acts (stalking, repetitive verbal harassment etc)
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In many circumstances - not all. (Pranking people into stepping in dogshit is a form of assault? Ok, it could be, sometimes, I can see that - - - - )

    So is saying "I think you're hot" - in many circumstances, not all. Your argument would be about proportion, degree.

    And it would not be, as presented, a bright line between what "puts - in danger" and what does not.

    Harassment is not bad because it puts people in danger. It is a danger, a bad thing, itself. What puts women in that danger is walking down the public street.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    "cat calling" which is a bastardisation of the cultural affinity to feline anthropomorphic sensuality is a gutter crawling cultural fight to the bottom.
    "wolf whistling" is another term
    it is a sexually projective statement of sexual content to a person to state sexual desire.

    it may well be ok in some specific situations like among friends or private partys of special events like sexually defined dance partys.
    but on the street to complete strangers or used in office environments is actual sexual harrasment.

    in the video i was wishing the guy who picked up the chair had hit the offender over the head with it.
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    the legal issue will be "provocation" and defense by the man after the woman responded.
    the event is sexual harasment, the response was verbal defense and claim the response was criminal assault with a weapon(risking death) then physical assault
    the offender should be put in jail.
    had a child stood up from the cafe table they would be dead from the flying ash tray.

    had the ash tray hit its target, the victim may well be dead or in a medically induced coma with brain swelling and near death.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Not mere words. A threat is qualitatively different from a comment.
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    those who claim words have no meaning are bullys.
    it is a clear sign of bully culture which inherantly promotes rape culture, racism ect etc...
     
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Coud at least start wit the worst/more aggressive offenders an see how it goes.!!!
    "I think you're hot" is punishable in the workplace... an i thank a law aganst sombody harassin women as they pass by on the street woud be a good idea.!!!
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    But both are "mere words."
    Not if it's your girlfriend who works with you.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    They are not talking about one comment.

    The crackdown on sexual harassment would mean fines for “degrading or humiliating comments” or hostile and offensive “sexual or sexist” behaviour towards a person in a public place. The minister for gender equality, Marlène Schiappa, has explained this could include situations such as men aggressively asking a woman for her phone number dozens of times when she is clear she is not interested, as well as sexual intimidation and harassment on public transport.

    US media are portraying it as wolf whistles and 'hey baby' kind of comments.

    I don't think people realise just how bad it is in France. Similar legislation exists in many European countries, because women are continuously harassed and intimidated in public areas.

    And you might think that that comment is not threatening. But as we have seen repeatedly, how that comment is delivered, the effects it has on the recipient is threatening.

    Look at the woman in France, who told one guy who made one comment, to shut up and he threw an ashtray at her head and then smacked her in the face.

    "A comment" can very much be threatening.

    Following a woman to make those comments is a threat and is intimidating. Harassing a woman is threatening.
    These laws were planned before the #MeToo movement even began.

    The legislation, which will be presented at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday and go to parliament in the coming months, was prepared before the sexual harassment allegations against the Hollywood film producer Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement, but it has gained prominence since.

    Because street harassment is so problematic in France. It's not just the words, but the actions of the men who do this that is so problematic. They stalk, follow, humiliate, threaten, intimidate and more often than not, resort to pinching and groping. Try being a woman on your own and catching a train or bus in Paris and get back to me about why these laws are necessary. I did that once the last time I was there years ago. I never ever ventured out on the street alone after that. I have family who live there, who do not walk alone or catch public transport alone because they are too afraid to because the harassment is so bad. As I noted above, other countries in Europe have had similar laws in place for a while now.

    The video of that poor woman being hit by her harasser just drives the point home as to why such legislation is necessary.
     

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