So ...all you're really saying is that sometimes we should hold up the high ideals of "human rights" and sometimes we shouldn't!!! Which, I might add, is NOT what you alluded to earlier ...would you kindly make up your mind??? But as you've said ...sometimes we should hold those high ideals, and sometimes we shouldn't. What? Are YOU to be the one to decide when and when not? Sometimes discussion must take a turn, a detour. You introduced the high ideals of "human rights", now you don't want to defend that very part of your own earlier post! Sorry, but when you use something to "prove" your point, then it's open for discussion to disprove it. ......which I just did! I.e., high ideals are good to use, but only if it helps YOUR point! ...LOL! Baron Max
...LOL!! Excellent point, Neildo, excellent! I can't wait for some of the liberal doo-gooders to try to figure that one out! Sorta' puts a major dilemma up in front of their high ideals, don't it? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Baron Max
Baron Max: "all you're really saying is that sometimes we should hold up the high ideals of "human rights" and sometimes we shouldn't!!!" " as you've said ...sometimes we should hold those high ideals, and sometimes we shouldn't." This is off topic. You and I are already discussing the contradiction you are grasping at here.
So ...terrorists are due the "human rights" of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but a duly elected senator of the US is not????? Duh?? Baron Max
Just occured to me ....why ain't you rights-lovin', privacy-for-the-citizen liberals not fighting for Foley's rights to email anyone he wants to? I mean, don't y'all want him to have the same rights as the terrorists??? And, by the way, I'm still tryin' to figure out what law he violated?? Y'all know? And if he didn't violate any law, .....? Baron Max
He has a right to e-mail and PM whomever he wishes, he does not have the right to sexually harass a 16 year-old. He wasn't discovered through wiretaps, but from the boy himself complaining. The real story here isn't this behavior, as bad as it is. The real story is the Republicans knew about this for 6 months and did nothing, they were waiting until after the election. So much for the party of values.
What law did he violate? If people knew about it, what could they have done about it if no law was violated? ...taken away his civil rights? ...throw him into Gitmo prison? What should they have done, Spider? Perhaps that's the real story instead, huh? Baron Max
''There's been a tremendous upsurge in federal prosecutions involving any kind of Internet sex enticement with children,'' Miami defense attorney Milton Hirsch said, noting that Foley himself has been a ''very vigorous advocate'' for punishing those who commit crimes against children. Foley, he noted, backs minimum mandatory sentences even for first-time offenders. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15651621.htm They could also fire him for inappropriate behavior, since the Cons are supposed to be on such moral high ground.
So are you advocating that such action be taken against anyone and everyone who "commits such crimes"? Or are you singling out politicians because you're seeking to further your own agenda? Baron Max
I'm wondering about the motivations of a party that would rather keep a sex offender (pedophile) in office than give up that seat. It's particularly ironic, since they tried to prosecute Clinton for having consentual sex with a woman old enough to be that boy's mother.
The House Republicans were only aware of the emails, which were merely a bit "over friendly". It's the instant messages where he crossed the line talking about wanting to give massages and whatnot to the sixteen year old. The instant messages were from 2003 their release is what prompted Foley to resign.
spidergoat, and what does that have to do with what we are discussing? you do have a bad habit of bring up things that are irrelevant to the discussion, is that because you have nothing to say that is relevant, or coherent?
Well, if we give the Repubs the benefit of the doubt in this, that they weren't aware of anything lascivious except for overly friendly emails, then the proof is in the pudding--regarding how they choose to handle it. If there's a full-blown investigation into Foley's misconduct and whether it's indicative of a larger ring of offenders, then perhaps this is a good start. If it comes out that they were sitting on it as long as possible, what then? Hopefully it's the former.
REP HENRY HYDE (D-Illinois): Hyde chaired the House Judiciary Committee which impeached President Clinton, and served as the chief prosecutor of President Clinton in the Senate trial. Hyde claims to be the "conscience" of the House, but concealed his own affair and called for an FBI investigation of the source when it was revealed. He claims to champion "family values", but his five-year affair with a married woman named Cherie Snodgrass (pictured) broke up her marriage. Meanwhile, Fred Snodgrass, the jilted husband, told Salon: "These politicians were going on about how he should have been on the Supreme Court, what a great man he is, how we're lucky to have him in Congress in charge of the impeachment case. And all I can think of is here is this man, this hypocrite who broke up my family." Hyde called the affair a "youthful indiscretion," (although he was just about as old as Clinton). He supports the political "death penalty" for President Clinton's affair, but claims a "statute of limitations" for his own. REP. JOHN YOUNG (D-Tex.): On June 11, 1976, Colleen Gardner, a former staff secretary to Young, told the New York Times that Young increased her salary after she gave in to his sexual advances. In November, Young, who had run unopposed in the safe Democratic district five consecutive times, was reelected with just 61 percent of the vote. The scandal wouldn't go away, and in 1978 Young was defeated in a Democratic primary runoff. REP. ALLAN HOWE (D-Utah): On June 13, 1976, Howe was arrested in Salt Lake City on charges of soliciting two policewomen posing as prostitutes. Howe insisted he was set up and refused to resign. But the Democratic Party distanced itself from his candidacy and he was trounced by his Republican opponent in the November election. REP. FRED RICHMOND (D-N.Y.): In April 1978, Richmond was arrested in Washington for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old boy. Richmond apologized for his actions, conceding he "made bad judgments involving my private life." In spite of a Democratic primary opponent's attempts to cash in on the headlines, Richmond easily won renomination and reelection. But his career came to an end four years later when, after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana and tax evasion - and amid allegations that he had his staff procure cocaine for him -- he resigned his seat. REP. JOHN HINSON (D-Miss.): On Aug. 8, 1980, during his first reelection bid, Hinson stunned everyone by announcing that in 1976 he had been accused of committing an obscene act at a gay haunt in Virginia. Hinson, married and a strong conservative, added that in 1977 he had survived a fire in a gay D.C. movie theater. He was making the disclosure, he said, because he needed to clear his conscience. But he denied he was a homosexual and refused GOP demands that he resign. Hinson won reelection in a three-way race, with 39 percent of the vote. But three months later, he was arrested on charges of attempted oral sodomy in the restroom of a House office building. He resigned his seat on April 13, 1981. REP. ROBERT BAUMAN (D-Md.): On Oct. 3, 1980, Bauman, a leading "pro-family" conservative, pleaded innocent to a charge that he committed oral sodomy on a teenage boy in Washington. Married and the father of four, Bauman conceded that he had been an alcoholic but had been seeking treatment. The news came as a shock to voters of the rural, conservative district, and he lost to a Democrat in November. REP. DAN CRANE (R-Ill.) and REP. GERRY STUDDS (D-Mass.): The House ethics committee on July 14, 1983, announced that Crane and Studds had sexual relationships with teenage congressional pages -- Crane with a 17-year-old female in 1980, Studds with a 17-year-old male in 1973. Both admitted the charges that same day, and Studds acknowledged he was gay. The committee voted to reprimand the two, but a back-bench Georgia Republican named Newt Gingrich argued that they should be expelled. The full House voted on July 20 instead to censure the two, the first time that ever happened for sexual misconduct. Crane, married and the father of six, was tearful in his apology to the House, while Studds refused to apologize. Crane's conservative district voted him out in 1984, while the voters in Studds's more liberal district were more forgiving. Studds won reelection in 1984 with 56 percent of the vote, and continued to win until he retired in 1996. REP. ERNIE KONNYU (D-Calif.): In August 1987, two former Konnyu aides complained to the San Jose Mercury News that the freshman Republican had sexually harassed them. GOP leaders were unhappy with Konnyu's temperament to begin with, so it took little effort to find candidates who would take him on in the primary. Stanford professor Tom Campbell ousted Konnyu the following June. SEN. BROCK ADAMS (D-Wash.): On Sept. 27, 1988, Seattle newspapers reported that Kari Tupper, the daughter of Adams's longtime friends, filed a complaint against the Washington Democrat in July of 1987, charging sexual assault. She claimed she went to Adams's house in March 1987 to get him to end a pattern of harassment, but that he drugged her and assaulted her. Adams denied any sexual assault, saying they only talked about her employment opportunities. Adams continued raising campaign funds and declared for a second term in February of 1992. But two weeks later the Seattle Times reported that eight other women were accusing Adams of sexual molestation over the past 20 years, describing a history of drugging and subsequent rape. Later that day, while still proclaiming his innocence, Adams ended his campaign. REP. JIM BATES (D-Calif.): Roll Call quoted former Bates aides in October 1988 saying that the San Diego Democrat made sexual advances toward female staffers. Bates called it a GOP-inspired smear campaign, but also apologized for anything he did that might have seemed inappropriate. The story came too close to Election Day to damage Bates, who won easily. However, the following October the ethics committee sent Bates a "letter of reproval" directing him to make a formal apology to the women who filed the complaint. Although the district was not thought to be hospitable to the GOP, Randy "Duke" Cunningham, a former Navy pilot who was once shot down over North Vietnam, ousted Bates in 1990 by fewer than 2,000 votes. REP. GUS SAVAGE (D-Ill.): The Washington Post reported on July 19, 1989, that Savage had fondled a Peace Corps volunteer while on an official visit to Zaire. Savage called the story a lie and blamed it on his political enemies and a racist media. (Savage is black.) In January 1990, the House ethics committee decided that the events did occur, but decided against any disciplinary action because Savage wrote a letter to the woman saying he "never intended to offend" her. Savage was reelected in 1990, but finally ousted in the 1992 primary by Mel Reynolds. REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-Mass.): In response to a story in the Aug. 25, 1989, Washington Times, Frank confirmed that he hired Steve Gobie, a male prostitute, in 1985 to live with and work for him in his D.C. apartment. But Frank, who is gay, said he fired Gobie in 1987 when he learned he was using the apartment to run a prostitution service. The Boston Globe, among others, called on Frank to resign, but he refused. On July 19, 1990, the ethics committee recommended Frank be reprimanded because he "reflected discredit upon the House" by using his congressional office to fix 33 of Gobie's parking tickets. Attempts to expel or censure Frank failed; instead the House voted 408-18 to reprimand him. The fury in Washington was not shared in Frank's district, where he won reelection in 1990 with 66 percent of the vote, and has won by larger margins ever since. SEN. DANIEL INOUYE (D-Hawaii): In October 1992, Republican Senate nominee Rick Reed began running a campaign commercial that included a surreptitiously taped interview with Lenore Kwock, Inouye's hairdresser. Kwock said Inouye had sexually forced himself on her in 1975 and continued a pattern of sexual harassment, even as Kwock continued to cut his hair over the years. Inouye, seeking a sixth term, denied the charges. And Kwock said that by running the commercial, Reed had caused her more pain than Inouye had. Reed was forced to pull the ad, and while many voters took out their anger on the Republican, Inouye was held to 57 percent of the vote - the lowest total of his career. A week later, a female Democratic state legislator announced that she had heard from nine other women who claimed Inouye had sexually harassed them over the past decade. But the women didn't go public with their claims, the local press didn't pursue the story, and the Senate Ethics Committee decided to drop the investigation because the accusers wouldn't participate in an inquiry. REP MEL REYNOLDS (D-Ill.): Freshman Reynolds was indicted on Aug. 19, 1994, on charges of having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker and then pressuring her to lie about it. Reynolds, who is black, denied the charges and said the investigation was racially motivated. The GOP belatedly put up a write-in candidate for November, but Reynolds dispatched him in the overwhelmingly Democratic district with little effort. Reynolds was convicted on Aug. 22, 1995 of 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography, was sentenced to five years in prison, and resigned his seat on October 1.
Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy. Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet. Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl. Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable. Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation. Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy. Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business. Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl. Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls. Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester. Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls. Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet. Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls. Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison. Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17. Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor. Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida. Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered. Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor. Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl. Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child. Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile. Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl. Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial. Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s. Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s. Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail. Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos. Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children. Republican campaign chairman Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child and was arrested again five years later on the same charge. Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page. Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter. Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography. Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped. Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD. Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media. Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him. Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl. Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her. Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison. Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl. Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children). Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl. Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child. Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl. Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters. Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl. Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison. Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000. Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession. Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet. Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison. Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter. Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls. Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison. Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer. Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women. Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency. See excerpt of one prisoner's report here and his full report here. http://www.armchairsubversive.com/ (site has links to relevent articles)
To spidergoat: I often agree with you, but think your long list of Republican sex related acts is unfair. I am sure, (because sex gets people of all political persuasions into trouble) that an equally long Democrat only list could be constructed. The fact that the Republican leadership tried to cover it all up is something to be critical of. I do want thank Foley for my first laugh of the day. I heard a TV "sound bite" of his speech. - The part where he admitted he had a "behavior problem."
