Right. Then why are they already running political ads on this issue? Why was this information held until October in an election year? Sure, Foley's actions are reprehensible and had nothing to do with politics. But the Democrats actions have everything to do with politics. Including, most likely, the timing of the release of this information. The fact that Foley was Republican had nothing to do with his actions, but you wouldn't know that to listen the Democrats.
Hmmmm kind of reminds me of when Bush and Cheney ran on the platform that they were going to bring respect and dignity back to the white house. I really see little difference. The fact is many Republicans knew for years of Foley's predatory behavior - the real question is why didn't they do something?
Hi all, i hope all is well. what i fear about this is that Foley's sins will bring about the downfall of the republicans in the mid-term elections, as this will effectively devalue the other sins commited by the republican governemtn in the US ######## take care Zak
I agree with you (yes I too am afraid). The Democrats are wrong to run ads on this. This is not a political issue. This is about a man who's been caught out doing something that is, well frankly, disgusting. That he is a politician should not matter. He could have been a teacher, a member of the clergy, a counsellor, etc. What will matter is that he's used his privilege in congress to commit these acts, but again, a teacher working in a public school doing the same thing would be as equally responsible. Yes Foley is a politician and I am sure that his constituents in Florida are disgusted by what he has done. But it is for them to now find another candidate to fill his shoes. The Democrats playing the political party card in this will not win them any favours. The victims, that is the teenage boys and even Foley's family, need time to recover from this and to deal with it. Votind Democrats will not ensure something like this won't happen again. They, like the Republican party have had their share of disgusting individuals filling political seats. As to the timing of the release. I can't say for sure. I'd rather it be out than hidden, regardless of the fact it is an election year or not. As to the Republicans who may have known about this for years and said and done nothing, they too are as equally liable, as are any Democrats who may have known and said nothing waiting for an election year to bring this out into the open. What Foley has done is something that is as you've rightly put it, reprehensible. Now maybe it is time to look at his actions as an individual, and the actions of all others who may have known and said nothing, as individuals.
If the house leadership has known of his activities and covered them up - that sure is a political issue. Everyone (almost) agrees the man and his acts are not the issue. You either are lacking in understanding or intentionally blowing smoke - trying to set up a smoke screen to divert attention from the real political issue.
Ah so you think the Democrats are doing a good thing by running political ads about this? Don't you think it's bad enough as it is? You don't think his sending sexually explicit emails and messages to teenage boys is the issue? Ermm ok. I thought that was what this whole discussion was about. Gee, all the babbling in the media and everywhere else must be wrong then. Whether Foley is a Republican or a Democrat in this sad and sordid tale does not really matter. What he did was wrong and as I've said above, if his fellow Republican congressmen and women knew of his actions and did nothing, then they too are wrong and all should be punished. However, I do not attribute his or their behaviour as something that is of a Republican nature. Nor would I have attributed such actions had it been committed by a Democrat, as being something they somehow do. If the leadership knew, then they too should resign their position and beg for those kid's forgiveness. I'd say the same if this happened at a school. Those who know should also face the consequences of their actions. However, I do not see how making an ad about this and politicising it will help the issue or the Democrats themselves. Does his behaviour represent all Republicans? Somehow I doubt it. If the leadership knew, then their political lives should end there, as their actions could be construed as being political as they were hiding it and staying quiet to save their political arses and Foley's seat. But even that is a bit of a stretch. What I wonder is what if some in the Democrats also knew of this? Aren't they just as guilty as the Republicans who hid it? Running an ad campaign is kind of wrong in my opinion.
No, the cops ain't gotten "around" the entrapment laws, they have to be very, very careful and do it just exactly according to the law, or it's all thrown out in court. There are laws, Bells, and that's what this great nation is built upon ...and you seem perfectly willing to toss all that out the window because of your emotional feelings about this particular issue. Did you know, for instance, that the show Dateline "To Catch a Predator" is set up by NBC who do all of the "shitty entrapment", pose the "little girl", who is paid for the performance, then when the guys fall into the trap, they, the "private citizens" call the police? Now ...you don't call that entrapment? I've also heard that the courts are beginning to throw out many of those cases as entrapment. What'cha think about that? It's not what I think, Bells, it's what the law is and should be. If Foley and these others violate the law, then they should be punished according to the law. If they have not violated the law, then the ideals of "inappropriate behavior" and "irresponsible" take on a whole new meaning, don't they? Why do we even bother with laws and courts? Why don't we all just form our own little vigilante groups and whenever we think someone is acting "inappropriately" or "irresponsibly", we just take 'em out and hang 'em? I heard on the evening news Thursday night that the Justice Dept and the FBI are still trying to figure out if what he did is illegal ...they ain't found any laws yet that he violated. And yet, you and most of the people here already act like he's not only violated a law, but you've practically convicted him as well. In a nation where law is all-important, I just don't think that's right, do you? If you can't tell the difference in defending his actions and defending the laws of the nation, then it's no wonder to me that you're having a difficult time with this issue. Do you consider "wrong" and "against the law" as the same thing??? Again, Bells, we're a nation of laws ....so what law did he violate ...please tell me ...I've asked several times, yet no one has come forward. You should also tell the FBI, cause they ain't figured it out yet! And again, for those of you who can't read, I'm not defending Foley, I'm defending the concept of the law, which is one of the main building blocks of this great nation. I think the courts are beginning to see that many of those "stings" are, in fact, entrapment, and as such, they're illegal. As for something being iappropriate, remember ...I said fucking without the intent of producing a baby is inappropriate behavior and should be punished by burning at the stake! What you think is inappropriate might not be for others - what I think is inappropriate might not be for others. Who is to decide that, Bells? Well, I think it oughta' be the law, don't you? So, if we want such behavior to be illegal, then lets pass a law ...."No adult can send emails or text messages to underage children". There ya' go, nice law, huh? And again, for those of you who can't read, I'm not defending Foley, I'm defending the concept of the law, which is one of the main building blocks of this great nation. It also has nothing to do with republican or democrat, both are a bunch of pricks who should be shot on sight! Baron Max
From their POV, they obviously think their ads are helping their cause, and I would tend to agree, but the ads are not the issue either. You still do not understand or, as I said before, you are just blowing very partisian smoke to try to aid the cover up or at least distract attention from the real issue: Did the house leadership cover up to protect one of their own?
And the police usually is quite careful to ensure that the charge against the sexual predator sticks. And they usually do. Ironic isn't it that the law Foley probably broke by attempting to solicit a child over the internet is one that he helped draft. The law basically states that you cannot use the internet to solicit or attempt to solicit minors. Hmmm.. interesting don't you think? Ironic. And from what I've heard, the FBI and the Justice Department are still investigating and poring over documents and interviewing pages and other staff members. I'm guessing that Foley was quite a busy little pervert and they probably have quite a bit of ground to cover. So pending the investigation, people should what? Stop even discussing it? Do I think he's violated the law? Having read the acts in question, I'd say yes. But as has been pointed out before, he helped draft the law so I am sure he knows just how far he can go before he breaks it outright. But if he's attempted to get a child to meet him, then yes he's stuffed up and gone too far and broken the law. Should he be convicted if found guilty? Yes. Should he be reinstated into his position if he is not charged or found not guilty. No. He has admitted to the wrong doing himself. He has admitted that his behaviour was 'inappropriate'. I honestly cannot believe that you have difficulty finding an issue with an adult man sending sexually explicit messages and basically cybering a child. What was it that you said? Ah yes, here it is.. To which I replied.. And this is where you come out with.. Hell, you don't seem to think he's done anything wrong at all. Now had he fucked a kid without the intent of having a child, you'd probably be screaming bloody murder. Child sex offences. Laws that he helped draft. Refer to links above and listed throughout this thread going a bit more indepth for you. No. You're not defending him. You just keep saying that his sending sexually explicit messages and emails to children is not really that wrong. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Amend that to 'no adult can send sexually explicit emails to underage children, nor can they solicit them'. But hey, that already exists. And shooting a politician on sight is not illegal? And here I thought you think the law is a wonderful thing and that you are defending it. But you want to shoot the people who make said laws on sight.
Not around here in Texas they don't stick so damned well! The courts throw out many such cases, even after the community has "convicted" the people in the papers and on tv. We had one case of a teacher who was accused by three girls. The news were ballistic, of course, and his name was smeared all over the state. Turns out the three girls didn't like the grade he gave them so made up the whole thing. The teacher is no longer a teacher, can't get a job anywhere, has been ostracized from his family and friends, and is now working on a warehouse loading dock. Nice, huh? Ahh, so it IS a law? And it's already been passed? Bells, I've been asking here for about umpty-eleven posts what law he violated ...and that even the FBI didn't know! Now you tell me that it's a law? They should do everything that they can to ruin his life, ruin his career, ruin the lives of his family and friends, ...and any and all thing possible before he's found guilty in a court of law. They should ostracize him from the community and no one should ever be allowed to talk to him again. Yeah, that works for me ....as it apparently works well for you and most of the poeple here. What's "inappropriate" behavior, Bells ...can you explain that to me? And other than what Foley has done, what else is "inappropriate"? And who decides that other than a court of law? And weren't the witches of Salem accused and convicted of "inappropriate" behavior? Well, I wasn't so sure earlier, but now that you've said it's a law, then I guess it's a law. The law is the way he should be tried in a court of law, not on the tv news or the papers or on Internet forums. Didn't bother to read what I wrote, did you? But I must say, I really do like the idea of vigilante law ...a bunch of self-righteous people who are willing to make accusations, convict a person of "inappropriate behavior", then carrying out the sentence by themselves. It's the way this great nation won the west, ain't it? Worked then, should work just as well today. We'll call ourselves "Bell's Rangers" ....sound good? Baron Max
I'm assuming by your post that you don't like that, so who else should decide what's "inappropriate behavior"? And would that then be the same for all citizens or just congressmen? Baron Max
No, you misunderstand, I think it is appropriate. His own party forced him to resign, so it's difficult to blame anyone else for a witch hunt or sensationalim.
Haha, I busted a gut during so many of those moments. My favorite was in the 3rd link something along the lines of: "This just in, we have word that Mark Foley recently masturbated into the slime bucket at the Nickelodeon's Kid's Choice Awards. It's okay though, republicans say that 9/11 changed everything." LoL! - N
So in light of this, we should simply ignore what a child says when it reports that he/she has been abused? It's a shame that the courts in your state or the police don't adhere to the rules. Think of all the paedophiles let free to roam the streets. That must comfort you quite a bit. Don't you ever think that the law or the courts are sometimes wrong? Ah but I forget, you're a sheep and will merely nod anytime the authorities tell you to nod. I'm guessing Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006 would be one. Well we all know what he's done. Checked himself into a rehab clinic and sent his lawyer out with a statement that was so Clintonesque in that it basically amounted to a 'I did not touch those little boys, I only sent them emails saying I'd like to', it is equally pathetic. Lets not forget Baron, those who turned on him first were the ones who probably sheltered him for quite a while. It was his fellow party members who sent him packing and stripped him bare to face the wolves that constituted the public, who are pissed off that they payed his salary as he sent kids emails discussing whether he (Foley) made them get a woody and whether they are rubbing said woody. Even if he is not charged, he should never work in Congress again, where he would continue to have access to pages. Personally I think he should be locked up and classified as a sexual predator, because that is what he is. You seem to forget, it was he who brought shame onto his family and himself with his behaviour. Had he not done it, he could have stayed on and fought. But he did do it. He's admitted to having done it, claiming that he's gay, an alcoholic and a victim of child abuse as a child, as though they are somehow excuses for what he's done. There is NO excuse for his behaviour. And the public who payed his wages so that he could commit these acts, some of them on Government time, will never forget or let him forget it. Had this not come out, he'd still be free to roam the halls of Congress, be paid and still have access to those children. Yes Baron, the children. We know he's attempted to solicit children for sex. And that does not disturb you? It doesn't disturb you that he might just get away with it, even though he's admitted to having done it? Again with the witch trials! You are obsessed Baron. You don't think that it is inappropriate for a Congressman to send messages to children with comments such as: Actually scrap inappropriate. It's just downright disgusting. Great way to be spending all that taxpayer money huh? Oh I also believed he should be stripped naked and dragged over a bed of hot coals. And you're right he should be tried in a court of law, and he should be jailed for a long long time. I learned from the best Baron. Your very own president, the one you've said you follow and agree with everything he says and does because he is the president, seems to be quite good at it. But hey, you tell me, aren't you the one who gave someone advice that they should beat the living shit out of an old drunken man? Or who seems to think that shooting someone from your front porch should be, well, the norm? I'm not saying he should be crucified by the public. I'm saying he should be charged and sent to jail for what he's done, branded a sexaul predator and registered as such. After all, that was what he fought for when he helped implement child protection laws against sexual solicitation and pornography, and it should apply to him as equally as it applies to members of the public when they get caught of doing what he's done.
Yes, Ma'am, I'm sorry. And I'm also sorry that I can't stoop to personal attacks in order to satisfy your obvious need for it. Baron Max
Exactly. And I agree that anyone who knew of his reprehensible actions should also be prosecuted. Turning this into an election issue is a sign of the weakness of the Democrats. Rather than run on ideas, on issues, they hope to ride this BS into power.
Just like the Republicans rode into power in 2000 on the gay marriage fear factor. They did the same thing in '04 but also had terrorism to terrorize us with. BOTH parties are bankrupt of ideas or common sense.
Not a political issue? Of course it's a political issue. It's a crime against the country to have a public representative sending horribly pedophiliac messages to an underaged kid. I bet if Clinton did this back in the 90s, I'm sure Republicans would be like, "Oh, let's keep this quiet and not make it a big political issue. It's the only FAIR thing to do." This is politics folks. If you screw up, it becomes public and will be politicized. Get over it, for those of you who are supporting Hastert/Foley on this issue. Now, let me count... --Delay --Abramhoff --Scanlon --Ney --Cheney --Foley --Reid --Gingrich --Livingston Seems like a pretty long list Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
