Father of Kidnapped Son gets Revenge

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by cosmictraveler, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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  2. Enmos Moderator

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    Perhaps, but I can't know until I'm in such a situation.
    I don't really have a problem with other people doing it, provided that the offender confessed or that they are otherwise 100% certain that he did it.
     
  3. Bells Frostbite! Moderator

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  4. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    bells YOUR A LAWYER for Christ sake, don't you believe in the profession you serve? We have laws for a reason, a lot a reasons actually. I hope he got the maxium the law alowed, that was premeditated cold blooded murder
     
  5. Bells Frostbite! Moderator

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    No.

    If someone kidnapped and raped either of my children, I would kill them.

    Yes we do.

    But for the most part, they walk after a few years. Like Craig Ellis, who broke into a family's home in the middle of the night, sexually molested the 3 year old daughter and was crash tackled and beaten by the parents when they heard their daughter's cries and found him in their hallway naked. And do you know what his sentence was?

    I would have killed him with my bare hands after I'd caught him molesting my child.

    So cry me a river and complain about how I am a lawyer, etc as much as you want. When you have a child and if someone rapes them, you are free to share a coffee with them and be thankful the law is there to let him/her out after a few years to re-offend again and tell yourself just how good a person you are. But I am not you. Thankfully.:)

    He was sentenced to 5 years good behaviour.

    His son had been kidnapped and sexually abused by this man. Do you really think any judge or jury would find him guilty of murder or manslaughter and sentence him for the maximum amount?

    Really?
     
  6. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    and what if he was wrong bells?

    Once society starts allowing that where does it stop?

    You either believe in the rule of law or your in the wrong profession

    Do you believe everyone has the right to a fair trial?
    Do you believe that everyone has the right to be judged by a jury of there peers?

    Further more I thought you were against the death penalty
     
  7. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    In my observation and experience, we have a LEGAL system in Canada, NOT a justice system. It comes down to a game of sillybuggers in whom can afford the cleverest lawyer and what tiny paper protocol was not served so that the case can be dismissed or down graded in priority. I can't comment on the legal system in other countries.

    That being said, sex crimes against children are particularly abhorrent to a majority of the people I know, even though most have very liberal and accepting attitudes in regard to sex between consenting adults.

    Abduction of a child is a very serious offense, with or without the allegations of sexual abuse.

    Let's just say that I am not terribly surprised that someone had the temerity to take the law into their own hands.

    Fortunately, I have no children, so I shall never have to face that particular situation.
     
  8. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Without a moment's hesitation.

    (As usual, Asguard takes the criminal's side. After all, all they need is the proper treatment for their mental condition and POOF!! - they will instantly become model citizens.) :rolleyes:
     
  9. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Both sides of this were criminal.

    But the guy who was killed had only been accused of a crime.
    He had not been convicted.
    Indeed since there was no trial no one ever heard his side of this story.
    So was there possibly an innocent explanation for his actions?
    What if the kid was actually being sexually abused by the father and the coach was helping him?
    Kinda why we don't want to skip the trial and go right to punishment.
    Even if it appears to be justified.

    The father, who may have just wanted to prevent this guy's testimony, had high connections in the Louisiana police and got the info from the police to know when and where the accused was coming in and with total premeditation waited in disguise and shot and killed the person in cold blood and in doing so put others, including the police officer next to the accused, at risk of also being killed by a wild shot or a through and through.

    And for this was given probation.

    Maybe something that would only happen in a few states like Louisiana.
     
  10. spidergoat alien lie form Valued Senior Member

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    I would wait until he got out of jail and then pull a Dexter. If I go to prison, then my son grows up without me and that would suck.
     
  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Actually YOUR the one defending the criminal, I'm defending the law

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)
     
  12. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.” ~Confucius

    Being there at a time when your child needs you the most is more important than fulfilling your desire for revenge, but I would do it, if I could get away with it. I think we should impose the death penalty for child rape. The victim's rights groups actually opposed it. They thought that if the child rapist were facing the same punishment for raping, as they would be for killing that it would only encourage them to kill their victims.

    Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape
     
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    But if you already know that your not going to do much jail time or none at all wouldn't that encourage people to take the law into their own hands for everything else as well? This could be a two edged sword being that if a child molester was to know that the victims family could get away with murdering him then it might prevent him from raping the children. Conversely if he knows this could happen then he just might murder the child so he won't get caught. :shrug:
     
  14. Bells Frostbite! Moderator

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    I would make sure that I had the right target. Like the case of Ellis. If that man had broken into my home and molested either of my children, he would not have walked out of it.


    Society does allow it. And the law does reflect that. Duress and provocation defences as well as self-defence being just a few that are often used in cases where people are killed by someone who is related to a victim of an atrocious crime.. I can assure you Asguard, someone who kills another because they know (and they know with certainty that individual had molested or raped their child or killed their child) would not be prosecuted. And if Ellis had been beaten to death in that hallway, the parents of that little girl would not have sen any jail time.

    I am a firm believer in the rule of law.

    But I also know that people who commit crimes like this are rarely imprisoned for life and the majority are released into the community and re-offend. Like Ellis.

    Certainly. But if someone breaks into my house and rapes my son(s) in the middle of the night, I have a right to use deadly force to terminate that continuing threat. And I would use it.


    See above.

    If you're in my house with your pants around your ankles and you are raping my son(s) or trying to kidnap them to molest them or you have kidnapped and raped them and I know you did it with certainty, you will die.

    Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    I have always said that there is only one reason why I would use deadly force and that is if someone hurts or kills my children.

    Whine all you want. I really don't care. :)
     
  15. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    No bells, you DONT belive in the rule of law obviously. which is a bloody stupid thing in a lawyer, if you put your real name to some of these comments I wouldn't be surprised to see you up in front of the bar

    As for "provocation"

    All the other states as far as I know are moving to follow suit

    Except possibly the backwards state of Queensland where "gay panic" is still a defence. If you caught someone in the act and killed them you might get away with it but if they were in custody and you walked into the court room and shot them you would a) be lucky not to be shot yourself by the cops and guards and b) be facing a murder trial because there is no way in HELL the government or the DPP OR the courts want that idiocy to spread

    On Queensland specifically

    I have highlighted the relevant section for you, ie this was premeditated MURDER not a killing in the heat of the moment BEFORE THERE WAS TIME FOR PASSIONS TO COOL, so even backwards Queensland wouldn't consider this acceptable.

    Oh and BTW its nice to see that you would put your own desire for revenge ahead of the needs of your own child. Do you think they would thank you for putting yourself in prison when they need you?
     
  16. Bells Frostbite! Moderator

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    Little do you know.

    Asguard, you can twist your little panties in a knot as much as you desire.

    I know my rights Asguard. You do not.
    Okay, firstly, if someone enters my home and molests or attempts to kidnap or molests my children, I have a right to use deadly force to stop them. That is my right as a citizen.

    I can assure you, if I killed someone who was doing such a thing, I would not be charged or prosecuted.

    And your reading and comprehension skills appear to be as 'good' as your spelling skills. I would suggest you read through what you have supposedly linked for me again and you will see exactly what I am talking about. I can assure you, no one would prosecute anyone who killed a paedophile if they were caught in their homes in the middle of the night raping and molesting their children. And I can also assure you that the DPP would find it very difficult to send someone to jail if they killed a paedophile who had kidnapped and raped their child. At best or worst, depending on how you look at it, they would be charged with manslaughter and released on probation or good behaviour which would last for a number of years. I can also assure you that the events leading up to that crime would be taken into consideration for the verdict and sentencing.

    Now, you can take your bucktoothed salivating whines to the end of the earth, you would still not understand exactly where I am coming from. Okay?

    Good..
     
  17. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Assuming you do this before the trial aren't you really saying is that you believe you can kill someone with impunity if you simply believe that they did those things?
     
  18. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Your rights, nice to know you would think first about "your rights" and second about your children's needs

    Its also nice to see your straw men bells, this isn't someone who is breaking into someone's house, this is someone who is IN CUSTODY, possibly in the court house. You think the judge will just pat you on the head for killing someone IN A COURT HOUSE? Hell no, even if he was found guilty and sentenced Australian federal (now) law FORBIDS a sentence of death. So your actions are against the will of the whole country. Secondly he wasn't found guilty, he wasn't even tried. He was killed before he had a chance to be tried.

    Bells what percentage of those found guilty by the courts do you estimate are innocent? 5%? 10%? more? And that's WITH all the technology and resources of a whole state police force AND the impartiality and procedures of the courts. What talent do you think you have which would make you a better investigator than a whole police force and justice system?

    Lastly your going to jail even if its just remand, what right do you have to deprive your child of your comfort and support in your quest for "your right" (which you don't have) to vengeance. You think in this circumstance that the best thing you can do for your child is make them a ward of the state? put them in foster care? How selfish of you to put yourself above your child in a circumstance like this
     
  19. traceyh Registered Senior Member

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    Get rid of protective custody and let nature take it's course!
     
  20. traceyh Registered Senior Member

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    Problem solved!
     

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