Famous Bigfoot encounters

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Magical Realist, Jul 2, 2015.

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  1. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not talking about evidence that "something happened", I'm talking about physical evidence that the something was "bigfoot".

    I have to ask, seriously for a moment - Magical Realist, do you understand WHY we don't believe in bigfoot?
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    There is no physical evidence cited in your OP of this thread.

    Also, you should also be mindful that the story in the OP was a hoax, well a case of mistaken identity, at any rate.

    The most famous case of a Bigfoot attack allegedly occurred at a place called Ape Canyon, near Mount St. Helens, Washington. In 1924, a group of five miners working at the site were besieged by a group of "ape men." One of the miners, a man named Fred Beck, claimed that they sighted a group of Bigfoot high above them on the edge of the canyon. The miners then spent a terrified night holed up in their cabin, during which the Bigfoot bombarded the cabin with rocks, and, they claimed, even tried to break the door in. The miners couldn't get a good look at the Bigfoot—partly because it was dark and partly because they could only see outside through small cracks in the door and walls.

    The incident was cited for years in Bigfoot lore as a classic Bigfoot attack, and the details were exaggerated with each retelling. For example a few dozen fist-size rocks that rained down on the roof and walls became "giant boulders" in some versions of the story. Later research found that the famous Ape Canyon Bigfoot attack was not a hoax — but nor was it real: it was instead a combination of a prank and misperceptions.

    It seems that the "Bigfoot" were local YMCA youth from nearby Spirit Lake, who had a long tradition of throwing stones (including pumice rocks, which can be deceptively light for their size) down into the canyon from above. The kids would not have known the miners were in the canyon, nor even that they were necessarily hitting a cabin in the darkness far below. When the miners looked up they would have only seen silhouettes of figures far above them. It must surely have been a terrifying experience for the miners, and it's easy to see how the Bigfoot story could have been spawned.

    Also on wiki:

    Ape Canyon was reportedly the site of a violent encounter in 1924 between a group of miners and a group of apemen.[disambiguation needed][1] These allegations were reported on in the July 16, 1924 issue of The Oregonian.[2] Fred Beck, one of the miners, claimed they shot and possibly killed at least one of the creatures, precipitating an attack on their cabin, during which the creatures bombarded the cabin with rocks and tried to break in. Beck detailed his claims in a book written in 1967, in which he identified the creatures as mystical beings from another dimension, explaining that he had experienced psychic premonitions and visions his entire life of which the apemen were only one component.[3]

    William Halliday, director of the Western Speleological Survey, claimed in his 1983 pamphlet Ape Cave and the Mount Saint Helens Apes that the miner's assailants were actually local youths. Until the eruption of Mt. St. Helens, counselors from the YMCA's Camp Meehan on nearby Spirit Lake brought hikers to the canyon's edge and related a tradition that the 1924 incident was actually the result of young campers throwing light pumice stones into the canyon, not realizing there were miners at the bottom. Looking up, the miners would have only seen dark moonlit figures throwing stones at their cabin. The narrow walls of the canyon would have served to distort the voices of the YMCA campers enough to frighten the men below.


    I think you should buy a kilo of salt and use that as your pinch when taking such stories in, MR.
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Right..So some guy named William Halliday who wasn't even there decides in 1983 that Frank Beck didn't see a bigfoot the day before and shot at it, did not grab the ax out of the hand of one reaching thru a hole in the wall of the cabin, and did not actually shoot down a bigfoot who was up on the canyon rim. The only part of the account Halliday agrees with is the rock throwing, which he claims was a gang of hooligans out in the forest after midnight bombarding the cabin with rocks while being shot at. Sorry Bells. I'm not buying that for a second. I'm sticking with the guy who was actually there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    This thread is only about eyewitness accounts of bigfoot. I stated that clearly in the OP. I've already gone over the physical evidence in another thread which was closed, then merged with 10 other threads, and then closed again. So frankly I don't care what you believe or why. I'm just educating people who want to learn about this topic and to be able to make an informed decision on the matter.
     
  8. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    And why do you trust him?

    Because he says something that you want to believe?
     
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you doubt him? Because he says something you don't want to believe?
     
  10. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    I'll ask again: Do you understand WHY we don't believe in bigfoot?

    I'm not asking you if you care, I'm asking you if you understand.
     
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Could it be an inherent lack of gullibility?
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I don't care why. Like you said before, belief doesn't matter. Right?
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Since you don't care to convince people, present evidence, or otherwise hold a discussion, then all that is left is that you are using this forum as your personal blog/soap box... which you know full well is against the site rules...

    any reason why I shouldn't lock this thread and cesspool it? after all, this is a discussion forum... not twitter, Facebook, or any other social media foolishness
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  14. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't ask you if you cared.

    I didn't ask you if you believed.

    I asked you if you understood.
     
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry. I still don't care why you don't believe. Can we change the subject now?
     
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    It wasn't hooligans. They were actually kids in the YMCA camp that had a history of throwing rocks down into that area from the cliff above.

    Beck has no other proof than their say so. The fact that those kids were known to camp there, above where Beck and his fellow miners were, and that they were known to throw rocks down indicates that this is the more likely case. Let's not forget, that Beck's story has been embellished quite a bit along the way and that the authorities who went to the scene at the time and scoured the area for days found no evidence or proof to substantiate Beck's account of events.

    Also, Beck claimed they were mystical creatures from another dimension and that they gave him psychic powers. Not to mention the fact that bigfoot is apparently strong enough to knock down large trees, but they can't break down a door or window.
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..noone has confirmed this made up story about camper vandals attacking the cabin with rocks after midnight while being shot at. It makes no sense and is obviously a weak attempt to just debunk Frank's eyewitness account. You'll have to do better than that. Mr. Beck's account stands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  18. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    How many times? I'm not asking if you care about why we don't believe, I'm asking you IF YOU UNDERSTAND why we don't believe.

    It's a very simple question, so why are you avoiding it?
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    Confirm what? That is where they camped and what they did. The authorities certainly believed it was them.

    Beck saw it as a psychic experience. From the link in your OP:

    The events leading up to the ape episode were filled with the psychic element. Since a young man I had always been clairvoyant. When just a boy I was in the pasture playing with my beanshooter. I had bought it with some long earned coins. It had a twisted wire handle. I lost it, and as I was crying, a kindly woman came up to me and put her arms around me. I felt warm all over. "Little boy," she said, "don't cry. Go home, you will find your beanshooter there."

    I went home and found it, and as far as I knew then it was the same one. But years later I found the one I lost. It was weather beaten and the rubber was rotten.

    I would be sleeping on the hard benches of the Adventist Church my folks used to attend, and I would have my head in a lady's lap, only when I mentioned it to my folks, they said there was no one else there and took it to be a boy's musings.

    As I grew older, I saw visions and eventually I was holding spiritual meetings. After 1924 I spent many years in healing work.

    Our time spent in Mt. St. Helens was a series of psychic experiences. The method we found our mine was psychic. I am mentioning these facts to help build a background of understanding in a case which has been wholly explained in a material sense. As I will explain the mysterious realities of the Abominable Snowmen, so must I show some of my inner experiences, for in my mind the two have always been closely connected together; and as I will show, these beings bear a direct association with the psychic realm.

    In 1922 we found the location of our mine. A spiritual being, a large Indian dressed in buckskin, appeared to us and talked to us. He was the picture of stateliness itself. He never told us his name, but we always called him the Great Spirit. He replied once, "The Great Spirit is above me. We are all of the Great Spirit, if we listen when the Great Spirit talks."

    There was another spiritual being which appeared to us — more in the role of a comforting friend, and we learned her name. One of our party suggested later that we name our mine after her; and so the mining claim we later filed bore her last name. The big Indian being told us there would be a white arrow go before us. Another man, who was not present during the attack in 1924, could see the arrow easily and clearly at all times. And I could see it nearly as well.


    And on and on it went. With arrows apparently flying through the air by itself to lead them to where they needed to blast for their mine shaft, and so on and so forth. Apparently one spirit was angry they were talking with another spirit and did not give them the gold, and after years of trying to find gold, they gave up. The story became more and more fantastic as it went on.

    Beck described bigfoot as manifestations.

    The picture I am trying to paint for you is a picture of manifestation. In this book I have showed also some of our high manifestation, as we had many of a high nature the six years we spent in the Mt. St. Helen's area. Of course, the lower or grosser manifestations were in the appearing of these hairy creatures called Abominable Snowmen — also called Hairy Apes, Bigfoot and Sasquatch, according to the region they are seen in. I believe they have always existed, although our encounter with them in 1924 was the first major report of anyone coming in contact with them. Other writings have documented the cases very well. I just like to show the reason for their appearances.

    It seems the spirits were the good or greater manifestations and bigfoot the lesser ones.

    So to him, these weren't even real creatures, but ones from the spirit world. He even says that they were not real creatures.

    Another very striking experience which shows that they cannot be natural beings with natural bodies: It was before we made our cabin, and we were staying in a tent then. The tent was below a little cone shaped mountain called Pumy Butte. A little creek flowed nearby, and there was a moist-sand bar about an acre in area. We would go there and wash our cooking utensils and bring our drinking water back. Early one morning Hank came back to the tent. He was rather excited. He led us to the moist-sand bar, and took us almost to the center. There in the center of the sand bar were two huge tracks about four inches deep. There was not another track on that sand bar!

    There we were standing in the middle of the sand bar, and not one of us could conceive any earthly thing taking steps 160 feet long. "No human being could have made these tracks," Hank said, "and there's only one way they could be made, something dropped from the sky and went back up."

    There was no third step. This is certainly another indication of what I'm saying about manifestation. I have heard it said that many ages ago the Rocky Mountain and Cascade Mountain Ranges were a center of a great civilization. I do think the mountain areas are extra sensitive to spiritual vibration, usually of a higher order, but sometimes lower. We ourselves being extra sensitive to spiritual vibration, probably had come into contact with the manifestation of these being easier than, perhaps, the average person would have.

    On the subject of the Snowmen I am not going to say Masters told me this or that. It would perhaps look impressive, but I want to keep the record straight. Masters have appeared in our home and talked with us, but not once do I recall asking them anything on the subject. Since that day in 1924, I have went on and progressed and have learned much, and now I can look back and put the puzzle together from the reservoir of knowledge I have learned.

    In the true sense everything in the material world is a manifestation. Ever since the time the first essence of consciousness formed from the Great Void we cannot describe, different planes or dimensions of being were created or manifested. Occasionally we of this dimension of space can be conscious of other beings of a different vibration and consciousness.

    The The Abominable Snowmen are from a lower plane.When the condition and vibration is at a certain frequency, they can easily, for a time, appear in a very solid body. They are not animal spirits, but also lack the intelligence of a human consciousness When reading of evolution we have read many times conjecture about the missing link between man and the Anthropoid Ape. The Snowmen are a missing link in consciousness, neither animal nor human. They are very close to out dimension, and yet are a part of one lower. Could they be the missing link man has been so long searching for?

    So bigfoot wasn't real to Beck.

    It was a lesser spirit from another dimension.

    The kids from the YMCA camp sounds much more plausible than a guy and apparently with his friends who appeared to be on a magical mushroom trip.
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Beck didn't know what the Bigfoot were at the time of this incident. That's why he shot at them several times. You don't shoot at something you don't think is real. Beck's account stands.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Did you read his actual words?

    He thought they were spirits from a lower realm. He didn't even view them as being bigfoot, as you view bigfoot as being bigfoot. He saw them as spirits. He even said when he shot them, that their bodies disappeared. It is other people who attributed it to bigfoot, not Beck. He saw them as spirits and he viewed their so called appearances there as manifestations.

    He asserts this several times.

    I would liken his experiences as being akin to Saint Paul's conversion, which we now recognise was probably an epileptic fit where he hallucinated everything and mass panic.

    Beck's account was, as he described it, of a psychic experience.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I posted his whole account. He says when he and his buddy first saw one, he shot at it 3 times. He did not have any beliefs about it then. It was a physical beast to him. Then he sees a hairy arm grab the ax in the cabin and grabs it back. That's also a physical being. Then, he describes the footprints they saw, their footsteps on their stakes, the rocks being thrown, their body slams against the cabin walls, their climbing on the roof, the door being pushed, and the one he shot at daybreak when they finally left the cabin. All indications he assumed it was a physical creature. Whatever his later beliefs became, he definitely experienced the apemen at that time as real beings. His account stands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  23. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    MR's ignoring Beck's actual words bcause it doesn't fit with his preconceived notions of what he wants to believe. Just like every other time he does this exact same thing.
     
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