extraordinary IQ and ability

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by rayview, Oct 23, 2003.

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  1. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Obliquely asserted, but noted, Dr. Mabuse.
    Nah, the ad hom's off. Nor is what I said countered by the above. Hell, I could be jealous and still be correct. But that stuff all got resolved since I spent all my time with above average IQs and had daily contact with the top. I'll take creative skills and my other areas of strength over a higher spike on what the IQ measures.

    I also knew extremely high IQs who were fine socially, so your myth of your inevitable isolation might be just that. And not something to pass on to your son.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

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    As a teacher of Creativity, I usually use my five senses to their full capacity to gather data and relationships. That is the best way to improve your abilities towards enlightenment or wisdom, whichever camp you are in. This is because we perceive the world through our senses and our brain creates the reality that approximates the physical world.


    Actually, I like him. He was a renaissance person, good at almost anything. That is a very rare ability and I strive to achieve that.

    Agree

    In our society, we respect Subject Matter Experts, that is because most of are a non-expert. So you have no choice. But these days you can get those information and more from various sources.

    When I was in school, I too looked at the professors with awe, and they made sure we did. As you learn in life, slowly the student far exceeds the teacher.
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    That is great stuff. Looks like we all walked on the same path...

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    My suggestions would be to write short stories or a digital book and pass it on if you have time. Start with a blog page with anyone of the blog sites. I bet we all learned the hard way - the society around us with out having someone to talk to. I have been lucky to have just a few mentors over the last 40 years. Now, I am mentoring an African American friend and when he talks, people are freaking out - never fails. The other day he gave a guest lecture in a class at Ohio State University, now the professor wants his notes! -- and I am enjoying this.

    :thumbsup:
     
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  7. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Even if it is laterally.
     
  8. MeMe1 Registered Member

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    The way Iq works is what is called conception range about ever 300 points on average. 150 person would not understand one word a person with 450 person was talking about. it gets so bad that people too intelligent will be attacked by slower people they will be seen as a threat. the same way animals identify threats in nature not by species identification but by iq range. A human with an iq of 110 would naturally hate a person with an iq of 1100 there would be no friendship between the two. Not because of hate but because of natural defense an ingrained instinct one that cannot be broken.

    People may think that just because you are smarter and out of their conception range that they would be friends but thats just not how it works. Unless you understand how intelligence range works something humans have no concept of simply because they compare every other person and form of life to their self. Humans individually see themselves as the best which is nice but in actuality no one person is 'better' than anyone else. The iq range of 70-150 is marginal at most at is almost meaningless.

    If you had an iq of 1500 you better watch your back because a human with an iq of average amount would become instantly hostile to you they would want to hurt to you because they would see you as a threat.

    Iq at high levels would allow access to higher level formulations and since humans are relatively violent at their most basic behavior they assume a smarter person is pure evil when in fact when your iq increases you actually become nicer simply because you figure things out much quicker you loose the need for simple fear and anger and become only loving and trusting.

    Humans feed of lies simply because a lie requires no thought formulation in their mind the truth is much harder to formulate and requires more time but at the cost of serotonin in the brain and since in a human it is produced in limited amounts a human can only wager a truth .03% of the time. Why you cant just go up to a random person and wager any social totality without months of social familiarity. While this is nice for human perception it decreases linguistic syntax information transmission dramatically to the point of pedantic rhetoricalness and non essential communication. Lies are in efficient means of communication and actually there is no reason to lie even once in life since a lie is non essential to social totality at least to people with IQs over several hundred.

    People with astronomical iqs do exist but they live in fear of their lives simply because standard humans would almost instantly turn on them if they found out how smart they were.

    There is no reason for a person with 1500+ iq to display it to a person with an under 150 iq well unless they have a death wish. Humans dont understand how this works and have no natural ability to comprehend this conception but naturally its how it works. 5000 people with a 1500+ iq against 7 billion with an iq under 150 unfortunately at 10 times the iq the 5000 would win every time at the cost of almost nothing to themselves.

    Its how natural competition works. If you had an iq of 1500 hundred would you really want to be around people 1/10 as smart as you? By your perception standard humans would be representational as no more than wild animals. Conceptions of science for these people would have to be hush hush at the risk of social destruction.

    Its all nature humans think they are the top of the totem pole. While they are more intelligent than an ape thats about the last thing they are more intelligent than. Their are billions of potential species just as equaly more intelligent than humans and some so smart that a human mind might as well be microbial to them.
     
  9. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Even if that were true, a person with an IQ of 1500 would probably be smart enough to behave however was necessary to fit in and achieve his desired social goals.
    Out of curiosity, I tried to ask Excel the odds of a person having an IQ of 1500. It wasn't able to tell me, because it apparently can't handle such large numbers. The highest IQ I could get a sensible answer on was 224, which apparently has a frequency of 1 in 9E15. There are only about 6E9 people on Earth...
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    This thread is funny. There are pleny of people who have genius iq's or iq's high enough that anyone can find thier equal to relate to on an intellectual level. If there was someone with an iq over 500+, then they may definitely feel alone if no one can understand them.

    however, ironicly, what people have a hard time finding is people who relate to them on a level of value systems. that is more rare to find someone that is of your own type for certain people. some are more evolved or have wisdom or are good people and most are not.

    high iq is not that rare. a real genius and an evolved soul, that is rare. sometimes, the most evolved souls are trapped in less than highly functioning cognitive minds (mainstream but high iq) and vice versa. there are those with high iq's who are crap.
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Really?
    Comparing the size of the average person's number of acquaintances and friends versus the incidence of geniuses would indicate otherwise.

    Define "rare"...

    WTF is an "evolved soul"?
     
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Your response means you should get along with just about anyone with a similar iq since intellect is all that seems to be in question. There are plenty of people in higher professions with higher iq's or even genius iq's. There are also plenty in academia. It's not as if you are finding a needle in a haystack.

    What's rare is to find those who have similar quirks, personal pov's or personality traits that are more personal. If we are just talking about straight intellect, that's easy.

    I wonder why that wasn't obvious to you. If you can't notice the difference between people's personal energies and value systems then it's even easier for you to find someone to connect with on an intellectual level because it's more shallow and more concrete.
     
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm glad you used the word "seems": that makes it plain you're assuming.

    Oops. It's not like you can just wander into the nearest university and say "I want someone to chat to", is it?

    Shallow and concrete?
    It wasn't obvious to me because you used the term "evolved soul": which you still haven't explained.

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  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.damninteresting.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-william-j-sidis




    i think this is one of the reasons why sidis just remained a clerk because he was searching for his humanity or was trying to reclaim it. this is much more essential than iq for well-being and sanity. he was a living and feeling being with his own identity and not just some supercomputer.

    of course intellectual stimulation is important but it's only one facet of life or what makes a person.

    IQ tests doesn't mean they are incorrect or impractical, it's just not everything it's touted to be. It's too narrow.

    That said, of course if people cannot find those of their intellectual level, it's like sensory deprivation or being dragged down. But what i've found is more the case has more to do with finding those who view the world similar to oneself or have similar types of brain wiring. IQ itself doesn't indicate that two people will necessarily get along or even relate that well beyond just academia because they may have different tastes, interests, even values and different vision of how they want the world to be. The chances may be better in understanding another with similar iq but not necessarily.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  15. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    There have been many studies showing that high IQ correlates very well with educational achievement, earnings, and most other measures of success in life. People who want to claim that IQ is "garbage" or somehow meaningless simply ignore all these studies. You can easily find the relevant studies with a little googling if you want them.
     
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    repeat: IQ tests doesn't mean they are incorrect or impractical, it's just not everything it's touted to be. It's too narrow.

    there have been dictators and criminals who have high iq's as well. this is because high iq doesn't always correlate with good character or other characteristics necessary or beneficial as a being or for society. it just practically indicates a greater ability, nothing more and nothing less.

    a good question to pose is if high iq is synonymous with success and power, then why is the world almost always in so much trouble filled with mayhem? if people who have higher iq's are smart, then they would naturally have more power, why is the world filled with stupid policies, faulty governments and inefficiency?

    evidently the fact people aren't perfect or 'wise' is an understatement which has little to do with rote logic tested on iq tests. there are also those who do very well io iq tests but couldn't come up with an original idea if their life depended on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  17. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    So what, exactly, do you think it's "touted to be"?
    Did anyone ever claim that IQ has anything to do with good character?
    Who said a high IQ is synonymous with success and power?
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    you said high iq was synonymous with success and it's true with some variation and exceptions. i never said that iq tests are totally erroneous which you repeatedly are dimwitted to not notice. it tests practical intelligence. iq tests don't measure creativity, the ability to innovate or even the ability to think outside the box to problem solve.
     
  19. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    Did anyone catch that 'House' episode 'Ignorance is Bliss'?

    Blew me away.

    Season 6 episode 8, it's available online.

    Check it out.
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No he didn't: the exact wording was
    And neither did he state that they're erroneous.

    Quite, tell us about dimwitted...

    In other words it tests what it claims to test.

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  21. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    well, the person you are responding to granted to much in saying it tests practical intelligence. To me practical intelligence shows itself in things like how to use a chain saw and how well you correctly decide it's time to call in a real plumber, along with creativity and some of the other things he mentioned that he is calling outside of practical intelligence. Creativity that is not in some way practical....I am not sure how much this is intelligence. But I do not think IQ tests test intelligence, or rather they test just a subset of 'skills' that go into intelligence. So I think its claim is false.
     
  22. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    That's a whole other subject: basically he'd previously made the claim that the test "was too narrow": and then he comes back and states it's not designed to test other things anyway...

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    But yeah, "practical" intelligence isn't what I'd say it actually tests: in fact the only guy who scored higher than me on the tests we took at college (engineering) was forever at a loss as to which end of a spanner (wrench) to use...

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  23. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    There you go. And let me tell you for a test of human intelligence (period) that misses tool use, anthropologists and primatologists should be scratching their heads (and perhaps even hooting a bit). I think social intelligence is an important one missing. I do not mean etiquette abilities. But the ability to 'read' people, notice dynamics, solve dynamics problems, have strong guesses about 'what is really going on' with others, etc. Stuff that good detectives, poker players, psychologists, scam artists and con men and teacher, as some examples, should score high on. I mean you can be autistic spectrum and blow away an IQ test but have no way to navigate society. Or you can be the person with average social intelligence who manages. Or you can be a genius.

    Physical troubleshooting - which your abovementioned spanner issue is an example of - would also be another category that at least partially gets missed - there are often spatial relationship questions, but this is only one facet of this category.

    Creativity.

    And so on.
     
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