Existance Well Tom! I like these kind of questions! or should I say philosophizes? I can only prove to myself that I exist, but I can not prove to myself that you exist, that is physically exists. Perhaps looking at it physically I don't even exist, but I think therefore I am. All of reality as I know it can be a made up world from my own existence, meaning I am imagining all of the world and I am the only consciousness that exist. But to answer your question, I can not prove to you that we exist, I can only prove to myself that I am conscious. By the way, do you remember the discussion which made god disappear in a puff of logic?
then surely you can if you can prove to yourself that you exist, then tell me what that is and I can prove to myslef I exist...ye? I dont really get what that means, conscience can only prove me that i think...but how do I know I exist if I am unsure what it is to exist if the only way you know is if you expreiance it, and if this isn't reality I am not existing (physically) then i will not know if i exist or not...do you get what im saying Holy?
This is just my own personal opinion. I can not prove to you or to myself anything physical, the only thing I can prove is that I am conscious and that I can only prove to myself. This one I had to read a couple of times, the words just wont come together to one sentence, but at last I got it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! . You are unsure because you don't know what it is to exist. Well neither do I, it is just my opinion that I exist, based solely on the experience of thought. By believing I exist (at least as a consciousness) I must exist in my own world, and if this world has been created by someone else and I am just an artificial intelligence (no /777 in that case), then I still exist in my own world until I get unplugged. Wow now I'm getting all weird in my head. This is a nice query to spend time thinking on, but right now Ill leave it at that. Please continue to screw with my head some more if you want. (Again: Do you remember the discussion with god in the HGtG which made god disappear in a puff of logic?)
Okay, I'm getting a little lost in your explanations but I got the gist and I find it an interesting question. The only proof I could think of for excitence is that everything I do has a reaction positive or negative,so for every consious decision my physical matter reacts and affects someone or something either physically or mentally. So therefore I think that I excist, the only thing would be if we as a whole, as in the universe itself didn't excist then maybe we don't excist, but that is a question I can't answer and I don't know anyone who can. We could all be very real or just someones imagination. Is that voice in our head our conscience or is it someone elses voice controlling our thoughts and actions? Sorry if I made no sense there or just confused the hell out of everyone.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Weeeelll.... I think that a reasonable truth is that we actually DO exist, since we can form a question about the validity of existing. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! If we didn´t exist, who/what would ask that? What are you if you are not? But if you mean like is the character in the film real or is it just an actor? Then it´s both. The actor has created the character by acting it, but then it gets a life of its own, in the film and in the minds of all the people that sees it, which increases its self-awareness. So our souls are like the actors and we are the characters. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
it's called "solipsism" Holy, I read some things about this matter, so I happen to know that there were persons wondering about other's existence long before we were born. Some of them even believed that they were the only conscious mind in the universe and all the others were just a projection of their minds. Those people were called solipsists. Among them you will find Pithagora, Descartes and many others. Of course, that thing is considered foolish these days, but at that time it was a debated topic.
Yes Thank you for the points. I have also read about those debates (or so my consciousness would have me believe). I think one would get laughed at if discussing this in the streets (or so my consciousness would have me believe). Is it really foolish or is it my own mind making that up to prevent my brain from exploding while figuring this out?
This sort of philosophical question used to entertain me. Then I grew bored of the whole "Table" question. You know the Table question? A group of ppl are standing around talking philosophy when some smartass points at the table and demands that ppl prove it exists. These days my reaction is more likely to want to smack their head into that table until they agreed that yes it does actually exist. There are philosophies that are so abstract as to provide no insights whatsoever. I guess I'm probably in the minority here, but I think there are more practical uses for philosophy. My personal philosophy is that you can worry about whether the table actually exists, I'll look to more practical things and get on with life trusting my senses. What else can you do? What would change if you thought the table didn't exist? Would you refuse to use them? Would you just walk straight into them? If you honestly believe this, then pain doesn't exist either. So whack yourself over the head - the entertainment I'll get from this will be very real. If you think other ppl don't exist either, then you are well on the path to becomming what is generally termed "homicidal" As figments of your imagination, they are there to do with as you please. Lets see how far that gets you. The philosophy that there are as many different truths as there are perceptions also rings false and useless to me. There is one truth, and many perceptions of it. If you are still cuaght up on the table thing, then you are missing the real truth.
Well said rush, it does seem a pointless question when you put it like that. I think putting someones head through the table would be a great way to prove its exsitence.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
who really cares? We may exist or we may not but who really cares because it is very real to me. I think it is possible that we are really somewhere else and that we just think that we are living life as we know it. It all seems very real to me.
Bebelina, I just re-read your post before the what is nothing, your line "Our souls are the actors and we are the characters" very good ideology,provokes quite an interesting train of thought for me and I thankyou for this.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Rush Those questions have a value after all. It might not be immediate, but think how all these small things connect in our mind to form a conclusion, a way of thinking. Each of those questions is not important by itself but within a context, and if we refuse to give them an answer (it doesn't matter if that answer is true or false) we cannot form an opinion about the outer world. Of course the table is real. But you cannot force all the others to share your opinions.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Existence First, what is the accepted definition of "exist"? The definition of "exist" from webster's dictionary is To be as a fact and not as a mode; to have an actual or real being, whether material or spiritual. Is this acceptable and what does it imply? If you accept the definition given above, then the concept "I think, therefore I am" is enough to define your own existence, but not necessarily others existence. What I mean is that by thinking you have automatically defined your own existence, but how can you possibly prove others exist? They could just be extrapolations of your own mind. What I would call splinters of your mind's eye. For instance, how can you prove that reality exists outside your own sphere of perceptions? How can you prove that someone you just talked to continues to exist after your interactions? Where am I going with this....I don't honestly know, just some thoughts I have had on existence.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You can't prove it. Why? Because to be a proof, it has to be accepted as proof. If you doubt that the table exists or that you talked to a person this afternoon or anything at all for that matter, then you might doubt that proof in itself exists. How can you prove that you just proved anything? Or prove that you proved that you had proof? Nasty little viscous circle, huh. So given that there can be no proof, I'd say that the only practical philosophy to adopt is to act as though the table does exist, that the person you talked to was real and that the evidence of our sense is pretty reliable. OK, maybe its a little harsh to say that there is no value in these sorts of thoughts - zen koans have a point, right? But I do believe that the conclusion anyone will have to reach after applying reason to this question is "I can't prove the table exists, yet I will continue to act as if the table exists as anyother option is irrational" There is also a danger in accepting this lack of reality - how can you prove that the person pointing a gun at you is real?
By acting in such a way as to cause him to pull the trigger Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
J/K.... I think we are all in someone's imagination. This person is a sicko....he/she picks and chooses what we think and what kind of life we live....he/she hears "voices" and they are "our" voices....except he doesn't give us what we ask him/her to do for us. But then, I can't prove this person exists either...so maybe I'm just imagining this person and I really exist because I'm imagining that I'm imagining that I'm just in someone else's imagination. Where's the gun? Where's the gun??? I CAN'T take it aNYmoRE! There they are....those men....why are they following me??? No! NOOOOooooo! Not the white jacket again! It's past Labor Day....don't you have any sense of FASHION??? I'm NOT crazy! "You're just in my imagination You are just in my imagination...you are just in my...." Er, ehem! 'xcuse me....temporary neuronal misfiring. What was the question again? Oh, okay. Em, let's see..."I think therefore I am...." Well, so then 3/4 of the world's population doesn't exist because they don't really think do they? Hehehe. If you are carrying on cell division....or are composed of atoms....you exist. Okay, maybe not. THE REAL QUESTION IS: PROVE THAT YOU DON'T EXIST! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I agree with seeker, it is all in the perception. we cannot prove something that is outside of our 'experience' as being 'real' or to be true in an absolute sense. We can say that there is a table as long as we agree with what we constitute what a table is. (well, I think it is a chair without a back! so there is no table!!) Say when someone tells you a story about a friend of his called Jim. Does Jim exist? Did he exist before you knew about him? What if your friend is lying but you do not know and never find out? You believe in the existence of Jim but it is actually a lie, so does he exist? I'm not sure where this is going but can someone please help with the fushsia striped dog that is annoying my cat? Well at least I think he is a dog............ As for Ana, it's a bit too late. quote: THE REAL QUESTION IS: PROVE THAT YOU DON'T EXIST! I've already posted. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
