I really don't understand why gays are so opposed to ex-gays. Doesn't a person have a right to be ex-gay if they want to? And then there are people that say "ex-gay" doesn't exist. I really, honestly, do not understand why the ex-gay movement would even exist if this is true. I've heard all the rationalisations, but they just don't add up. Example: Now tell me why an ex-gay (that means people that are struggling or have struggled with same sex attraction), tell me why in the hell they would even want to be at the NEA and offer an alternative if reorientation therapy doesn't work. I'm sorry but this just doesn't add up. Did they lie about ever having same sex attraction? Besen, showing his own behavioral problems, was escorted from the convention because of inappropriate behavior, the social misfit that he is -- he verbally attacked Dr. Thortmorton: Look who is being intolerant and uncivil -- the liberal left of course, and the police have to do their job. Well what can I say? The "truth-won-out" allright, and Besen was kicked out because of uncivil behavior.
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State of Hawaii Report of the Commission on Sexual Orientation and the Law Chapter 5 Pt2 (MINORITY OPINION, continued) ref: Manual of the International Statistical Classification of Diseases, Injuries, and Causes of Death, 9th Revision, World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland; Section 302 also deals with Section 302.1 entitled Zoophilia deals with bestiality; Section 302.2 entitled Pedophilia deals with sex with children; Section 302.3 entitled Transvestism; Section 302.4 entitled Exhibitionism; Section 302.5 entitled Trans-sexualism; Section 302.6 entitled Disorders of psychosexual identity dealing with feminism in boys and gender identity disorder of childhood; Section 302.7 entitled Psychosexual dysfunction dealing with psychosexual dysfunction, unspecified (302.70), with inhibited sexual desire (302.71), with inhibited sexual excitement (302.72), with inhibited female orgasm (302.73), with inhibited male orgasm (302.74), with premature ejaculation (302.75), with functional dyspareunia (302.76), and with other specified psychosexual dysfunctions (302.79). DO WE INTEND TO GRANT CIVIL RIGHTS ON THESE GROUNDS AS WELL? See the story of Martine Rothblatt, a lawyer who views the world without borders. She is legally married to her lesbian lover (the only ones in the U.S. because she used to be a man when she married her wife, and then after years of marriage the two decided it would be fun for them to spend the rest of their lives as lesbians. Martine received a sex change operation.) The story is a cover story to the National Law Journal, June 12, 1995. 4.Mental Health Professionals Say that Homosexuals Can Change Dr. Gerard van den Aardweg (Ph.D in psychology from University of Amsterdam; taught in universities in Netherlands and Brazil) writes: ref: on Appendix G: How To Be Your Own Best Friend (New York: Lark Publishing Company, 1971, pgs. 22-23); Comprehensive Group Psychotherapy, edited by Harold I. Kaplan and Benjamin J. Saddock (Baltimore: The Williams and Wilkins Company, 1971, pg. 521); Dr. Charles Socarides, "Homosexuality," American Handbook of Psychiatry, 2nd edition, Vol. 3 (New York: Basic Books, Inc., 1974, pg. 308); Samuel B. Hadden, "Treatment of Male Homosexuals in Groups," The International Journal of Group Psychotherapy, XVI, No.1 (January 1966, pg. 14); "A Way Out for Homosexuals," Harper's Magazine (March 1967, pg. 107); Changing Homosexuality in the Male (New York: McGraw- Hill Book Company, 1970); The Primal Scream (New York: Dell Publishing Company, 1970); Father John F. Harvey, The Homosexual Person: New Thinking in Pastoral Care (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1987, pg. 76); "Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances," Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry II, second edition, edited by Alfred M. Freedman, Harold I. Kaplan, and Benjamin J. Sadock (Baltimore: The Williams & Wilkins Company, 1975, pg. 1519); Homosexuality in Perspective (Boston: Little, Brown 251); Homosexuality (New York: Jason Aronson, 1978); What You Should Know About Homosexuality, edited by Charles W. Keysor (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Dr. Ruth Tiffany Barnhouse (M.D. from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons; clinical assistant psychiatrist at Harvard University; member of the Ethics Committee of the Massachusetts Psychiatric Society) writes: ref: What Is a Christian View of Homosexuality?", Circuit Rider, February, 1984, pg. 12. Dr. Reuben Fine (Ph.D in clinical psychology from USC; Director of the New York Center for Psychoanalytic Training; visiting professor at Adelphi University) writes: SW and SL are promoting incalculable harm. Anyone ready for a lawsuit for these two charlatans? ref: Psychoanalytic Theory," Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches (Washington, D.C.: Hemisphere Publishing Corporation, a subsidiary of Harper and Row Publishers, Inc., 1987). Dr. Robert Kronemeyer (studied at Amherst College; Ph.D. in Psychology from Columbia University; served as Adjunct Professor at New York University; developed Syntonic Therapy) writes: ref: Overcoming Homosexuality (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, Inc. 1980, pg. 7). 5.Studies Show That Homosexuality Can Be Cured By Psychoanalysis(22). ref:See Appendix F for list of quotes from the following publications: Ruth Tiffany Barnhouse, Homosexuality: A Symbolic Confusion (New York: The Seabury Press, 1977, pg. 97); Dr. Irving Bieber, Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study (New York: Basic Books, 1962, pg. 301); Charles W. Socarides, M.D. Homosexuality (New York: Jason Aronson, 1978, pg. 405-406.); Morey, Tom, Committee to Study Homosexuality of the United Methodist Church, General Conference of Ministries, Chicago Meeting on the Sciences, August 1990, p.19.; Robert Kronemeyer, Overcoming Homosexuality (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, Inc., 1980, pg. 135); Dr. Toby Bieber, "Group Therapy with Homosexuals," Comprehensive Group Psychotherapy edited by Harold I. Kaplan and Benjamin J. Saddock (Baltimore: The Williams and Wilkins Company, 1971,); E. Mansell Pattison and Myrna Loy Pattison, " 'Ex-Gays': Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals," American Journal of Psychiatry (December 1980); Gerald van den Aardweg, Homosexuality and Hope: A Psychologist Talks About Treatment and Change (Ann Arbor, MI: Servant Books, 1986.); Homosexuality: Disease or Way of Life (New York: Collier Books, 1962 Houston MacIntosh, M.D., reporting a recent survey of 285 psychoanalysts who had analyzed 1215 patients found that: ref:Houston MacIntosh, M.D., wrote in "Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients," Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association (Vol. 42, No. 4, pgs. 1183- 1207). I like this one: At least a few people in government have some common sense. ref: Dr. Joseph Wolpe, The Practice of Behavior Therapy (Pergamon Press, 1969, pg 255-262). NARTH Bulletin (September 1994). another version of same story from The Removal of Homosexuality from the Psychiatric Manual -by Joseph Nicolosi National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality OOPs sounds like a therapist really screwed up. Garbage in garbage out. Yike, I smell lawsuits coming against pro-gay therapists for misinforming their clients. This should prove to be quite interesting as time goes on. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
SL said homsexuality is defined as: Might I quote from the National Law Journal: So tell me Snakelord, is Martine Rothblatt a homosexual being a lesbian with a "Y" chromosome. Is his/her wife a homosexual? SL said: OK the answer is somewhere between 23% to 27% for conversion to heterosexuality. Houston MacIntosh, M.D., reporting a recent survey of 285 psychoanalysts who had analyzed 1215 patients found that: ref:Houston MacIntosh, M.D., wrote in "Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients," Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association (Vol. 42, No. 4, pgs. 1183- 1207). I'd like to compare that to the detoxification results for Alchoholics Anonymous -- BTW alchoholism is genetically linked too. There certainly are a lot of professionals out there that disagree with you and Skinwalker. I'm only getting started unmasking this deception from you two. For example: you asked for a control experiment, which would only prove that the therapy made the change and rule out the people that changed on their own as in Dr. Wolpe's example patient. Dr. Spitzer's goal was to prove that change can be made regardless of the reason. Hence, a control experiment would dilute the result, and water down the conclusion: exactly what the political activists want. Some of the LGB studies don't use control groups either, so you shoot down their pro-gay results with the same bullet. I can give examples if you want them.
Cris, I am concerned my scientific results on successful sexual re-orientation therapy will consume too much band width. Should I start a blog instead?
Hi Woody, Just interested to hear your thoughts on ex-heterosexuals. You know: married 20 years, 3 kids, only to up and leave overnight with a truck driver called Brian. Would you consider this kind of re-orientation to be successful? Naturally, these individuals have to make a lot of sacrifices in order to realise their true identity - the internal pressures must be phenomenal. What do you think?
Here's an interesting presentation on DSM, used to classify mental disorders. It is only the start for psychiatirc treatment, not the end all. As you may recall in this thread, the DSM on homosexual behavior was declassified from a mental disorder in 1974: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p030473.html Though homosexual behavior has been removed from the directly classified list, it is still treated as "other disorders" by practioners in the the psychiatric community. From the Zur Institutute: 3,810 practitioners opposed the removal in 1974, So tell me Snakelord and Skinwalker, were they incompetent to practice psychiatry? On the surface, this appears to be intimidating coercion on the part of gay activists to infuse "political correctness" into the therapy process. As I said before -- politics before the patient , and therapy by coup d'etat. Why can't psychiatrists just do their job and be left alone by these nuts?
I have a step-nephew that left his wife and did the same thing. You know, you never hear of anyone going through re-orientation therapy to change from heterosexual to homosexual, do you? Here's a testimonial for you: While I was single, our singles pastor related an incidence that happened with two lesbians that lived nest door to him and his wife and children. As it were, one of the women divorced her husband and moved in with a lesbian next door. She brought a pre-adolescent son with her. Her lesbian partner treated him brutally when his mother wasn't around. The pastor recalled several incidences where the poor boy ran outside the house screaming as she lashed him and beat him severely with anything she could find for a whip. I don't know if social services got involved in this or not. In the pastor's own words he said it was Too Much Hurt. His account is one of the reasons I disapprove of homosexual adoption.
trivia from the Karten study: Some of the details from NARTH editorial Among Karten's most robust findings: treatment success is best predicted by a reduction in conflict regarding the expression of non-sexual affection toward other men.
Researcher Under Investigation for gay gene research misconduct: CFACR Investigatory Report A coffin nail for Bailey: from the review:
Good Reasons to Change Gay Behavior: Health Statistics When you look at the statistics, there should be no question that acting out on same-sex attractions is dangerous to your health. Here are just a few of the statistics you can share with friends: • In 2000, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that 49% of all AIDS cases were among homosexual men age 13-24. • At least 50% of all new HIV infections in the US are among people under 25 years old. • Homosexual men are 9 times more likely to contract the HIV infection than heterosexual men. • Homosexual men and women are at a significantly higher risk of contracting incurable sexually transmitted diseases, including herpes and HPV. • Homosexual women are at increased risks for certain cancers. • Acting out on same-sex attractions also has devastating psychological effects, including increased drug and alcohol abuse.
Is heterosexuality not a behavior? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! There is an enormous amount of people on this planet who have unmet emotional needs and natural sexual urges that often go unfulfilled. Guess how many of them are so-called heterosexuals? My, you are gargling! Playboy, Penthouse, High Society, Club, Hustler, Barely Legal, Nugget, Swank, etcetera, etcetera... All these are filled to the brim with heterosexual illusions based on beauty, which fuel fantasies based on that "beauty" ( Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) that are likely to go unfulfilled because they are unrealistic and untenable. You didn't mention anything about the false notions of femininity and unnatural standards of beauty that society is bombarded with daily. Did you forget about the heterosexuals? Conveniently? You seem certain that you are only describing homosexuals, lost and confused and so far from what is natural and God-intended... You're describing an enormous number of hetersexuals. I know some young men who would rather have a perfect-looking sex machine for a woman, who preferably has a small brain, and little to say. You know, someone you don't really have to invest alot of time or emotion in, just so long as they're available for that particular act. Woody: you're amusing, fairly one-sided, and kind of annoying.
A sizable minority of people enjoy eating sushi. However, sushi has a much higher risk of causing serious bouts of food poisoning than most other foods. Does having a taste for raw fish that could harm or possibly even KILL you count as a mental illness then?
Only if the fluke worms get into your brain. I read a story about a guy that frequented the sushi bar, and ended up with a terrible case of flatworms. I suppose a few flatworms swimming around in your brain would be hard to go un-noticed. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yep, heterosexual pornography fits it to a T. You are 100% correct -- that kind of "heterosexual" behavior is also bad behavior.
Perhaps you fail to see the bigger picture? I wasn't just talking about pornography. What is the underlying basis for the images found in pornography? The ideal of feminine perfection, of course. You very strongly insinuated that homosexuality was based on a physical, sexual attraction. Physical beauty. That men or women are unable to have their emotional needs met by their own gender, only the opposite gender. Most attractions between people are ignited by a physical attraction first, and perhaps possibly a superficial intellectual attraction. Of course it can be the other way around, but most often a person's looks and features are the first to be noticed and the first to catch someone's eye. You failed to comment on the fact that many heterosexuals have relationships that come and go all the time. Some of them go through partners left and right. This problem of "unmet needs" you describe is common to many people, hetero or homo or what have you. This isn't simply a "gay" problem.
Most certainly. While I wont speak for others here - I can only say I don't really care who's gay, who isn't and who supposedly once was. You've dragged me down to some shit that means nothing to me, so to clear this up we'll have to take a quick journey back to the start.. It was these statements I had issue with, as seen when I said: "you claim it proof positive of the existence of your specific space being. It's ludicrous." Hopefully now you'll understand where my issue lies. I don't care who's gay and who isn't. I don't care about your ten thousand step uncles, brothers, wives, preachers lovers and best friends that got blow jobs off some other guy or ran off with a truck driver named Bob. I have come to accept that you live in the Twilight Zone. My issue is with the idiocy of your statements - trying to use prophet yahweh and some "dont be gay" group as even evidence, let alone "proof", of the existence of a specific sky being. Let's get it straight: I have no qualms with gay people or supposedly ex-gay people. I am a tolerant person. Now, as we know you do have a problem with gays, women, and many many more - because you're an intolerant person. However, you can be that way - again, I don't care. But if you're going to make stupid statements, (as I have highlighted), you will be called on them. One more thing.. Man.. science has changed women into men, men into women, and even into a combination of both. Top that.
