Evolution belief in America

Again, you imagine answers where none were offered. That religion of yours is most likely the culprit to your problem.

In other words, you refuse to answer. That's all you needed to say, sam. Don't worry, we won't think any less of you.

 

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(Q), you are so smart, and the rest of us are so dumb.

 

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So it was a poll of belief aimed at people assumed to be poorly acquainted with what they themselves do or do not "believe in".

The assumption appears to be that no one taking the poll knows what any, let alone "the", theory of evolution is. Can we assume a similar incomprehension of "god", and shitcan the whole thing? Not quite - there is no way to be simply, factually, mistaken about God.

btw: Orthodox Muslims have in practice the same basic problems with science that fundie Christians have. In this aspect, among others, there seems to be a contrast with Judaism and an alliance between the newer Abrahamic religions.

 

You'd still have to say what you mean by God helping or guiding the process.

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I guess that would translate to no opinion.

 

Are these orthodox Muslims aware of Christian dogma on the issue of science/evolution, or did they arrive at their conclusions independently?

I have seen Muslims in the west who mirror the Christian creationism, most of these tend to be completely ignorant of Islamic views; Islamic scholars per se, on the other hand, have no problem accepting current science and have differences of opinions on issues of science (e.g. stem cells and abortion) that are disparate from the Christian ones.

 

I think it wrong to attempt an answer where knowledge or concepts are incomplete. Fantastic explanations may work in cosmology or religion, but biology tends to be more empirically inductive.

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same here.
this poll/ thread is a perfect example of how science screws with the minds of the general public.

the thread title talks about evolution.

the poll options deal with abiogenesis.

these are two entirely difference processes. like 99.9% of the people, you james, have been mislead by the forces acting upon our schools. it's amazing how widespread this charade is.

 

Here is an article that discusses the diversity of thought in Muslims regarding evolution

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2007/05/the_evolution_of_daft_ideas.html

 

I think I have explained why I have no opinion to the best of my ability.

Of course, it may not be satisfactory to others, regardless, it is my position.:shrug:

I do not feel the necessity to pretend to have concrete views when I, in fact, don't, merely to convenience or convince others.

 

I dislike yes or no questions; one, because they presume an expertise I do not possess, and I am not going to give an opinion based on ignorance.

Second, because I don't know

Third, because having worked in science for almost 15 years, I know the role that assumptions play in defining our hypotheses and conclusions.

Perhaps it is not true in mathematics, but certainly in biology and most definitely in nutrition.

That said,

1. Do you think that scientists' conclusions about the dates in the fossil record are more-or-less accurate, at least to the extent of dating fossils to millions of years old as compared to a few thousand years?

I don't know. I don;t know the premise of the method used, how it is standardised, how it is verified, what are the assumptions of dating fossils.

2. Do you agree that the fossil record reveals examples of organisms now extinct that are genetically related to organisms alive today?

Like dinosaurs and birds? I will say there is similarity in genes, but what do you mean by genetic relatedness? Did they descend one from the other? I don't know.

3. Do you agree that all life of Earth shares a common origin?

Hmm this for certain I can say I don't know. It could have arisen in several different places at once, with similar but not the same origins.

4. Do you agree that the human species and the chimpanzee species share a common ancestor species, now extinct?

I think current scientific knowledge supports a common ancestor, so yes, I agree.

5. Do you agree that human beings have existed as a species for more than 50,000 years?

I don;t know the exact time period, but its longer than 6000 if that is what you are asking

6. Do you believe that the process of speciation can be assisted by God (Allah)?

I don't know

7. Do you think that Allah has, in fact, ever intervened in a "natural" process of speciation?

I don't know

May I ask, if you know the definite answers for these questions? And your basis for your beliefs?

 

They are the Muslims currently purging the Turkish schools of the teaching of evolutionary theory.

They are the Muslims one finds all over the Internet, in large and well=appointed websites devoted to explaining Islamic faith to the ignorant, a fair proportion of whom regard Darewinian theory as Western secular degradation.

I don't distinguish "true" from "false" religious believers - no large body of self-described Islamic people, with mosques and a priesthood and so forth, is "ignorant of Islamic views". Their views are in fact Islamic views.

edit in: Given the number of answers above essentially "I don't know", do you think on those subjects that the Turkish textbooks should be changed to reflect this uncertainty ?

 

Not if the viewpoints they express are based on non-Islamic sources. I think it is well known that the Turkish group, BVA or something, bases all its views directly on Christian literature and is actually a political movement against their anti-Islamist secular government.

There was a recent study conducted on anti-evolutionism in Muslims in the Netherlands

http://www.isim.nl/files/Review_18/Review_18-48.pdf

 

That's awfully convenient, isn't it?

Are Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh's actions supportable as "Christian views"?
Are the views of Aum Shinrikyo (the Buddhists who launched the Japanese subway sarin gas attack) "Buddhist views"?

 

Only if I am writing them. I have yet to see a good science paper that did not assume uncertainty, from the assumptions to the (statistical) interpretation of the observations to the inferences. The whole field of epidemiology has proved unsuccessful in its major inferences, the entire field of molecular biology is based on the assumption that scanning a million genes can provide information on the molecular basis of chronic disease.

When I see certainty in science, I know I am dealing with a nonscientific person.

 

Yeah, but you asked my opinion.

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Thats alright, there is no dating system for the earth or the universe in the Quran.

Does that mean, if I have carbon, nitrogen and hydrogen in common with mineral elements, I am descended from them? I think the notion of descent is fine, but why it presupposes a common origin for all is something I have yet to discover. Seeking a neat pattern appears to be a weakness of people, which I recognise and try my best to avoid. After all there are amino acids in outer space too. Are we saying that all amino acids came from a single source? Do we know enough to be certain why only 20 amino acids form the basis of life as we know it?

See previous.

Well they still believe they can win the war in Iraq too, and Saddam had WMDs so I would not consider them as the final authority on which to base my beliefs.

Ok

Thanks. You know they say, when you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras, but what about bulls?

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Sam - regarding percent relatedness and radiodating...what are you serious?