Everyday racism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by paddoboy, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    BINGO - Insert something about education here

    Unfortunately the defeat of racism would probably be replaced by ethnicism or religionism

    Where is the white flag?

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  3. Bells Staff Member

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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Imho
    it is silly to claim that race doesn't exist.
    That being "said"
    I think that it should not matter.

    I had a close friend in the army, Monty B. who described himself as a half breed. He was 1/2 native american and 1/2 irish/german. He grew up on the reservation where they called him "fucking white boy" and in town they called him fucking indian-----he grew up thinking that he didn't belong anywhere. He was sentenced to 5 years in the army after he got into a fight with and accidentally killed a towney(white boy) who had roughed up his little sister. He said that being in the army was the first place that he felt that he belonged.

    Race should not matter, but for the people who would put that question(race ?) on a registration form, it obviously does----- and that is a problem, which I do not know how to fix.
     
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  7. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    You’ve explained this at great length but what caused James to create that thread “everyday sexism,” came from a post you made joking about women being indecisive. Of course *I* know you’re joking, but between referring to women as “love,” and jokingly putting them down...after a while, a pattern starts to emerge that you view women as dumb/weaker and you don’t know how to relate. I’ve mentioned that you’ve always been kind to me here but it’s just something worth reflecting on, because it’s quite possible you don’t really see how you come across to women. Like I’ve said, women often will go with the flow as to not stir the pot.

    This may be happening in your daily “everyday” interactions with women, and you are completely unaware. Some of us are just trying to help you become aware.

    If you feel that changing this behavior is tantamount to walking on eggshells, then you’ve never really learned how to interact with women, without drawing attention to their gender. Did your dad refer to women in this way? (joking about women as a whole etc) I ask because sexism, racism etc are often learned behaviors.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Not just women.
    The "indecisive" women "joke" rankled me too - but not enough to bring the thread to a screeching halt.
    In fact, when James started the sexism thread as a result, I still kept my counsel - until the offender starting berating people for not being sexist.


    An excellent, inciteful point. Worth repeating.

    The colourized equivalent is needing to insert something about someone's skin colour every time you address them or speak about them. (to-wit: "boy").
     
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  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. I hope we get to that point - but we are far from it now.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a white male. Many of my coworkers are white male. No hate used.
    ?? Is using the term "Asian" racist? Is using the term "women" sexist? That seems odd.
    ?? No. Are you a white male? Does that engender feelings of hate within you?
    So when you use it you are expressing hatred? What is your point here, exactly?
    Why would you bring up old people here? Are people here all old? Or are you old and you feel he has singled you out?
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Bless me James for I have sinned!

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    Certainly not the every day standards that most Australians adhere to in common banter among casual people...you know, the stuff that happens to be every day in every circumstance, and by both sexes.
    No argument, just every day fact James, at least in my world, and nothing really needs to work, as none of it has any double meanings or sublime messages, despite your wringing of hands.

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    Nup factual every day interactions James, no polling necessary, no fallaciousness involved and more importantly, all true.
    I've already invited to to the club to try your own hand, and/or apply whatever questions you like.

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    No bullshit James, [at least not on my part] all accounts without any philosophical claptrap.

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    No, I'm just rebuffing your disgusting innuendo against my person. Everything I said is factual, despite the wrongful, and cunning attempts to misconstrue it all.
    Would you like me to repeat all of them again? Probably could add a few more too, as it is so common and everyday interactions.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2020
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The problem you do not know how to fix is that race does matter, in the US - very few things matter more.

    The reason you don't know how to fix it is that you and those like you cause it and defend it, supporting its establishment in American institutions and the defense of its consequences in the daily life of millions of Americans.

    There are people who are trying to at least reduce the effects of race by various means, but these people are liberals and libertarian lefties and secular humanists and you are proud to oppose their efforts. You won't even fill out a form accurately, and you support a political movement that installs the likes of Steve King and Joni Ernst and Chuck Grassley in positions of power.

    As long as racism is systemically protected and institutionalized by the likes of your political efforts, race will matter in the US.
    - - - -
    No, he wasn't.
    Try quoting him, as I did.

    Here, for example, is Mick's take on my posting the fact that there are least four human races anywhere in the US, and several more in some regions:
    An irrelevant misquote of an historical document? Nobody knows.

    Notice his absolute refusal to acknowledge the reality of race in the US. Notice his avoidance of discussion, argument, etc - instead that vague and easily denied Fox-question, the kind of thing the Tribe posts around here in lieu of arguments and claims and so forth, when even they have noticed what those claims look like in daylight.

    Or more recently:
    Why would something as trivial and irrelevant as that truism earn such emphasis?

    Apparently because, as Michael has made clear by now, he thinks that race doesn't exist already - which means that he cannot be racist or a supporter of racism, part of the problem, see? He's innocent because he thinks all humans everywhere belong to the same race and acts accordingly, not guilty for that reason.

    It's kind of a get out of guilt free card - where guys from the Cave can ponder bothsides arguments and whether or not East Coast pundits are referring to them in properly respectful terms and tones, while sending the likes of Joni Ernst to the US Senate: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2020/12/shes-not-throwin-away-her-shot.html
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry iceaura, that's nonsense.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I need a hint.

    Five elementary possibilities, 3125 combinations: 1) Normalization of bad stuff is not a problem 2) it's not a problem with racism 3) society has nothing to do with racism 4) society has nothing to do with normalization 5) normalized racism is not oppressive.

    Did you have anything in mind, or were you just typing?
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Dunno Write4U...I agree this is getting rather desperate and foolish on some people's part. What are you referring to?
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    WEGS: The banter, the me calling someone "love" or them calling me Love, or sweety or whatever, is done without second thought in every day life. The old woman [my age] yesterday for example, when standing behind me in the store, "'scuse me luv, I only have one item, can I get in before you" :me: "Sure Luv, no problem. She was not attempting to harass me, nor was I tempted to harass her. The ambulance paramedics...one young, one middle aged, when I called them during our bushfire disaster and the smoke affecting the Mrs' asthma...walking in the front door, "addressing me as where's the patient love" and then telling the Mrs, "take it easy sweety, we'll look after you, or similar words to that effect.
    Fair dinkum wegs, I could go on and on and on...

    It's nothing about walking on eggshells wegs. It's simply common banter without any second thought or under lying insult or sublime message. And again, if any man or woman objected to my casual banter, I would cease forthwith, and probably avoid them.
    Take it easy and have a good Chrissy!

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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I really can't follow you iceaura. I have made my position clear, despite all the unsupported philosophical claptrap.
    Perhaps you need to address the facts with regards to my interactions and the reactions and initiations of such banter by them.
    Again you were not present at any of the encounters I have relayed...neither was James, neither was Bells.
    The two female bar attendants looking after a bunch of old farts at my local club, were young, beautiful, and interactive with our conversation/s and keeping us lubricated...laughing, joking, etc.
    No problems, no sublime messages, no agenda, just a group of blokes at our reunion having fun, along with a couple of female bar attendants who joined in.
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Everywhere the term white male is used is by folk who use it in a hateful manner and that is a fact...Just look at the various posts over time in this forum ...not to accept that as a fact and to offer your observation is basically fraudulent.

    Instead of trying to divert my valid observation or that of others perhaps simply take the time to comprehend what is being said not what you want to read into the commentary. It is not smart although no doubt you think you are clever...and we are not talking of "Asian" or " woman" so recognise your attempt to divert the conversation angers me and belittles your ability to engage the object of the discussion.

    White male is a broad brush and the only time it is used around here, anywhere in my experience, is in a hateful manner..that is what is on the line disagree with that..it happens so often I wont bother wasting my time looking for examples but I am sure that 15 minutes spent will firmly establish my point. If you can't accept that you are another victim of the hate.


    The term is a wild generalisation, the first ear mark of racism, it is used exclusively in a hateful manner...what don't you get?

    There you go again trying to move the goal posts...I think you know the answer so clearly your question is not genuine, your question shows that you are not able to consider the validity of my statement..Racism is a broad brush applied with hate..tell me what redeeming qualities can you point to in the term white male and do you disagree that it's common use is to point to a undefined group and to generate hate...anyways do bother with an answer as I don't want to tell you again all the things that are clearly already on the table and fully comprehensible if one simply applies a small degree of unbiased logic.
    You mention "white males" at your work..tell me do you ever qualify anyone that way..to general isn't it and you must know if you did folk would think you were ready to get into something more than just describing someone.

    Why argue when you are wrong?

    I think you could find that question answered well before now.
    Who is on the receiving end of the bullying and abuse here..Paddo,Mick and me...old men, singled out for attack ..or do you want to rearrange my words as you just tried to do to be stupidly clever.

    Please rather than just mindlessly follow the mob think about my objection to white male, think about how it clearly fits the bill for both racism and sexism, think about when it is used and see if you can bring yourself to admit that yes it is used predominately in a negative and hateful context and bears the main attribute of both racism and sexism as to calling a basically very diverse group one name...it is hateful it is general..it takes no more than that to make it wrong.

    Merry Christmas
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I'm going to restrict myself to addressing your posting here.
    And you double down on that kind of "evidence".

    Again: others lack your confidence in your mindreading capabilities and your perceptions of societal context - especially when you ring so many warning bells via your presumptions, immediate resort to personal attack, and apparent inability to follow simple points and observations based on the common experience of oblivious sexism in "normal" men.

    Meanwhile: You labeled the quote in post 89 "nonsense", cryptically, without clarification. Are you capable of clarifying - there's an outline for you in post 90 - or are we supposed to just ignore you when you get like that?
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    My personal attacks???

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    Ahh, so selective you are, reminds me of Schmelzer among others. Please remove your blinkers if you want to continue factually.
    OK, let me rephrase for you....racism and sexism may exist in some society, and may even have existed in western society in times past. That as far as western society is concerned, has been largely eliminated, although sometimes remnants still exist.
    But it is stretching the friendship and stretching the view of what is normal to then include the casual banter between consenting adults of both sexes and most age groups, to then include casual banter, such as when the old Lady addressed me as "Luv" yesterday, as some form of sexual assault or insult on my person.
    That and similar is nonsense and philosophical claptrap as per post 90.
     
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Now why would that be..called insane..not to my face gets us old folk upset..I know totally irrational and not worthy of an apology.

    I have..just read what I have said...it is a generalizing term and used exclusively in a hateful manner branding it as racist ( and sexist).

    Why seek my input..I am insane remember.
    Why should it sound that way given my commentary is in a context of calling for the death penalty for domestic violence and rape and asking questions of our culture being guided by the church and Hollywood.. your observation is unrealistic and not genuine..how could even suggest such a thing...this thing of putting words into people's mouth when clearly they do not hold the opinion you attempt to put upon the is smiley and fraudulent.. it makes me angry..it's basically a lie..if not tell me what it is?
    Perhaps there isn't one...I am dealing with mob mentality so perhaps there is no leader..all just running around believing their own propaganda.
    I should not have used the term is gives credit to a mob that is undeserved.
    I must not be so subtle...I don't know it's just something an insane person is likely to say.

    Of course I can..I was a real estate salesman ..I know it all when it comes to that sort of thing...but it is an individual thing ..now a mate of mine goes into an absolutely uncontrollable rage and immediately attacks with intent to kill if you make the mistake of calling him dirt bag..another..well people I know..goes same way if you call him "two dogs" ( and no I have no idea but I would pay for the story behind that one)...anyways .to answer you directly of course I am aware..I bet more aware than anyone here how folk respond..in real estate you meet all people from judges to labourers they are all different they all respond to different things..your mobs problem is you orbit in a narrow region unexposed to the wider community..thats the way it is for most all folk..they inhabit a group and the norm of the group becomes what is right..look at the inability here to accept that the term white male is racist and sexist...that just does not go down well therefore you all fight to make it not so..but it is so..it is racist and sexist and you can try for the next ten years to change it but you can not..I speak the truth...anyway I know people the various social groups..some will find Paddos approach insulting, most wont by the way...I know them all, from murders to the high court judge, years ago, even sat beside Bob Hawke in a case where we acted for him...so it's not like as you seem to think that I don't get it...your failure to apply the two simple tests for racism and sexism means you dont get it...further you fail to appreciate your group is not representative of humans..it is hard to find any group that is really...and so your judgemental attitude besides being stupid and arrogant is very offensive to all the group you seem to think are inferior.

    Before I point..is such sexist?
    Old white male under the definition of racism or sexism, in general terms, perhaps would be less of a problem simply because to us "old" takes away the broad brush..you now have a specific group which changes things.
    Anyways you are indulging in irrelevance.
    Gee I would have to think about that one..but I will take a page out of your mobs book..if they are acting badly and on the other side well of course they should be critised however if they are on your own side and acting badly of course they should never be criticised... like take Bells grow a pair...now if Mick had said that or me or Paddo had said that then clearly it's horribly sexist...but when Bells says it it is not sexist in the least but mere Australian banter...Like the 11000 scientists lie..because the lie was by "our" side it was not a lie at all...me I don't give a rat's who is wrong I will call it...white male is racist and sexist..sorry it is difficult to accept but the truth often comes with that flavour.
    Er I am not protecting him I am pointing out that bullying is taking place...do you see the difference? Tell me upon what I have said how do you draw the conclusion that I was protecting him....anyways Paddo can eat your lot for breakfast and not even burp.
    But the fact is abuse and bullying is running wild and because it's not happening to "our side" it ok... we know how it works...your side is wrong and members are insane and our side heck all should be presented to the Pope for sainthood.
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Ice
    the fact that you are so often wrong doesn't seem to slow you down much.
    and there is another problem that i do not know how to fix
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You said "show me where the term 'white male' is not used in hate." I gave you one example (me.) I gave you a second example - you.

    If you really think the term "white male" is only used as an insult, I don't know what to say. It's not true here. It's not my experience. It's not the experience of the people I know. I am on the DEI committee at work, and we regularly talk about the role that white straight males (i.e. a lot of us) have in being allies. It's not used in a hateful way. It's used as an expression of fact.
    In that it covers white males which make up about 40% of the population of the US? True dat. Not really relevant though.
    OK so you are not using it hatefully. Again, that's two people here who don't use the term hatefully. You asked to be shown where it's not used hatefully, so there's your answer.
    I did not know Paddo and Mick were old. I could assume you were around 72 by your username.
    But again you just ridiculed my suggestion that it was similar to "Asians" or "women" - which is also calling diverse groups by one name. But those are not offensive to you apparently.

    Clearly you have some big issues with the term "white men." That's fine; the only person who determines what angers you is you. But it doesn't make much sense from an outside perspective.
     
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