Europeans and other Foreign Nationals who Trash America

Interesting take, and a definite sound shift occurred.

Do you think Donovan influenced Dylan somewhat?

 

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Ah, there's this retarded conversation I had with two British about 2nd World War, and how the US Americans, and the Russians came to save us. They both claimed that the US just came fishing for medals, and that the Russians were better, etc. They kept on thrashing the US, and praising the Bolsheviks. Well, I told them that I would have preferred if the US Americans would have come to get us rid of the Nazis instead of the Bolsheviks. At least the US Americans were so kind to leave contrarily to the Bolsheviks, who then gave us 41 years of no freedom, fear, murdered our intellectuals, etc.

Well, what else could I expect from these two? They probably have no clue about what it felt like for families that were considered as a threat in the commie times. They both came off as ignorant "hail USSR" dumbies just because they hate the USA.

 

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the vacuum tube is also american:

http://inventors.about.com/od/uvstartinventions/a/Vacuum_tube.htm

 

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where did you get that assumption from?

 

*lets see, i have a pm. wonder who is busting my balls now*

 

*yep i had a feeling who it was. should i read it? does it matter?*

no, it doesnt matter.

 

You're whole argument is totally one sided. You acknowledge the inventions of "others" outside the USA while not calling in to account those who lead up to their inventions, but on every American invention you pigeon-whole them by adding the requirement that every single one be accredited to some event or person who came before them. A little hypocritical.

Didn't deny that, nor do I care about the history. All I stated is that Levi Strauss was the first one to make jeans from them. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Do you realize who utterly pointless this statement is? Okay, fine. Wonderful. You used another system. Are you using it now?

Actually, that was either a blatant lie or an oversight due to ignorance. Universities all around the world, and certainly in North America were using and were clamoring to use TCP/IP, if they were, Phlog, why did CERN & TBL work so hard in creating the WWW to work on it, and not some other network?

See. You're so desperate to hate everything American. You won't even give credit where credit is due, even when the proof is apparent. But strive in a blatantly biased manner to stretch every invention of non-Americans as significantly important. And the funny thing is, nobody is even denying the contributions of other nations. The only person here that's doing that is you, about Americans.

Prove it.

The first mass produced computers were Commodore and then Apple. Do a little digging.

Boo hoo? You're the one acting like an ignorant fool, denying credit where credit is due just because you don't like the truth. Not that we haven't seen this from you before (hows HDDVD working out for you?)

No, Phlog, it's empirical fact. Do a little digging. Humans develop things. They all do. That's the hallmark of intelligence. Every intelligent species on earth has many parallel technological developments. It's only arrogant to assume that yours will and others won't.

Well, that's been your due course for this entire discussion. I.E> American inventions aren't American, but European ones belong to Europe, etc.

Take a look at any list of inventions over the past century and a half. Compare the recipients of the Nobel Prizes. I can't for the life of me accept that this gives the USA special privileges in the world, but it's a fact that only those blinded by their hatred would ever attempt to deny.

~String

 

Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the Telephone until he accepted American citizenship. Part of the greatness of the USA is in not caring about where a person was born. He was an American citizen by choice; he willingly disavowed any allegiance to his former country and swore an oath of loyalty to his new nation. This, in an age when people actually took such things seriously.

Television - (Iconoscope–T.V. camera table), Vladimir Zworkin, U.S., 1923, and also kinescope (cathode ray tube), 1928; (mechanical disk-scanning method) successfully demonstrated by J.K. Baird, England, C.F. Jenkins, U.S., 1926; (first all-electric television image), 1927, Philo T. Farnsworth, U.S; (color, mechanical disk) Baird, 1928; (color, compatible with black and white) George Valensi, France, 1938; (color, sequential rotating filter) Peter Goldmark, U.S., first introduced, 1951; (color, compatible with black and white) commercially introduced in U.S., National Television Systems Committee, 1953. (there's a lot of international bodies in there, but by weight, it's proportionately more American than anything else)

Air conditioning - Willis Carrier

Revolver - Samuel Colt

Motion pictures - Thomas A. Edison

the Airplane - Wright Brothers

Electric Transformer - William Stanley

Rocket (liquid-fueled) - Robert Goddard

Mechanical Reaper - Cyrus McCormic

Vulcanized Rubber Tires - Goodyear

Cotton Gin - Eli Whitney

Telegraph - Morse

Automated Assembly Line - Henry Ford

Windows OS - Bill Gates - Um. . . windows, you know, the software used by 90% of the world's computers. Taken from inventions by Apple (Steve Jobs) an American.

Steamboat - Robert Fulton

Zipper - W. L. Judson

Typewriter - Christopher Sholes, Carlos Glidden

Transistor: John Bardeen, Walter H. Brattain, William B. Shockley

Just to name a few of the many.

Then there are the numerous--and I admit, troublesome--cultural contributions that the USA has made to the world.

~String

______________________________________________
Famous Inventions & Discoveries

 

LOL! Bet you got a distinction for that.

 

So you've given up because you can't support your claims.

I'm not America bashing, that's just a cop out allegation.

Simply, synthesizer patel issued a challenge for Iceaura to list seven things that made America _superior_ and he failed to do that, listing things common to many nations. You then piled in with a list of 'inventions' that are not solely American.

All I was doing was pointing out your errors. I was not bashing America.

 

Oooh, I'm afraid not. They get credit for the first _controlled_ flight.

They were not the first to fly a powered aircraft.

 

Territorial pissings

Was this thread going to do anything other than turn into a territorial pissing contest? Look, there are at least four distinct issues generally not considered:

• Legitimate criticism of the American endeavor
• America-bashing
• Legitimate appreciation of the American endeavor
• Jingoism​

One of the problems I'm encountering with this discussion is that there's not a whole lot of consideration of the difference between legitimate and illegitimate criticism. In the media, common discourse, and here at Sciforums, there are often accusations of bashing that attempt to deflect legitimate criticism.

I might, for instance, take a hard line on abortion and denounce Ireland, but in terms of world impact, Ireland isn't about to run off invading Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction that aren't there and then completely botching the whole show. The United States is in a unique position in the world. Right now, we are the world leaders. And while that doesn't necessarily mean that unique rules apply to us, it does mean that our actions often affect the world to a greater magnitude. If some minor fascist player tortures suspects, that's bad enough. The world condemns it. And while the world condemns the torture and abuse of terror suspects in American custody—as well as our extraordinary rendition program—the fact that America has undertaken such means, and the fact that America is prepared to look past its sins, undermines our nation—and the world—in its struggle against tyranny. Yes, that we do it has much greater impact on the world than similar crimes by smaller, less-influential nations. Leadership requires exemplary demonstration, and all throughout our culture that burden is proving greater than many are willing to accept. There is much to criticize about the direction we have chosen, and if it is true—and to some degree it is—that our relative lack of foreign travel and problems with basic geography contribute to these decisions, we might expect to hear about it.

The question, of course, is how far is too far.

To call Americans lazy, for instance, will ruffle feathers because Americans work harder than most, if not all, their first-world neighbors. They're not lazy. A useful, underlying accusation can be extracted, but what is there to separate it from the rest? In this case, the "laziness" is a matter of superficiality. Regardless of what you might think of any of our individual American members, even our misinformed neighbors are more deeply engaged than the average citizen. For instance, I've had plenty of conversations over the years with people who decry judicial activism because of some recent decision, but have never actually read any written decision, much less the one they're actually complaining about. And this is sort of where the "lazy" criticism comes from. The American middle class is highly specialized; but it is often fair to question their comprehension of issues outside their immediate spheres of interest. One might know a lot about, say, advertising—imagine it's their career—and hiking and ecology—derived from their hobbies—but be absolutely clueless about the rhetorical issues by which they select the candidates they vote for. After all, how often do people get upset because the law they voted for violates the Constitution? They might want to pass a law and enforce the rule of law, but they don't understand that the rule of law says no to the law they want to pass.

Or something like that.

And when it comes to our engagement as a nation with the international community, similar short-circuits of the logic in our national conscience can have terrifying and devastating effects. So, yes, we have the world's attention. Especially when we're fucking up.

I'm not prepared to relinquish our leadership role; rather, I would prefer we go about it properly.

In the meantime, international critics ought to remember that Americans are very creative within their neuroses; if your criticism is too vague, people will find a way to reject it. It's not enough just to say that Americans are fat, dumb, or lazy. There are specific processes afoot that create the outcomes you disdain. Identify these—e.g., don't be ... uh ... well, you know—and it becomes much more difficult to simply flick away the criticism as if it was a crumb on our sleeve.

 

There was some minor legal action. . . and the overall lack of incriminating evidence probably saved me. Rumor has it, I wore rubber medical gloves. Nobody knows for sure.

~String

 

Not quite.
There's quite a bit of investigation going in serious aviation history (as opposed to say, Discovery Channel watchers) and at the moment it looks as though Clement Ader's Eole is a pretty good contender.

 

No. A ban for being a troll and acting like douche. Your methodology is: everything one nation does, it does not get credit for, but all the things other nations do, they get credit for. You've continued trolling using that flawed syllogism and it's becoming tiresome.

If you have something intelligent to contribute, do so. Otherwise leave.

~String

 

Really, where else? What authoritative source is debating this issue outside great non-TV network watchers like yourself?

Is this claim substantiated by any authority? Every source I can find on the guy discredits his claims.

~String

 

Royal Aeronautical Society for one.

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Until the final verdict is out it's unlikely to be.

Well duh!
Isn't that the case with EVERY dispute until the "old regime" is overthrown?
(IF it is, I'm not saying that Ader will be vindicated, simply that the guy has a chance of it).

 

Of course there's always Hiram Maxim too.

 

Inferiority complexes are stupid.

And that is how you weasel out of things? Of course you will say 'well the sole of the shoe is not....' blah, blah, blah. It is disingenuous and you can deny it but that will not change anything.

 

No, I've decided you're a complete waste of time and not worth speaking to. You address what points you want, ignore others and make inane and stupid arguments.

Perhaps it's inevitable that America would come up in a thread about those who trash America, but as I have already pointed out, the point of my argument was the Europeans who smugly trash America -- for whatever reason -- and you've proven that by behaving in the exact same manner. Good for you.

Culture is much more than inventions, a point I've made and you've ignored. I've also listed plenty of cultural expressions -- in film and in literature -- that you chose to overlook. Suite yourself. I really don't care.

To which I respond, Riiiiiiigggggghhhhhtttt.

Elsewhere you might want to address String's list, of which you pulled one item, ignoring the others. Or step back and realize that your technique seems removed of context or consequence. In other words, to use a crude metaphor, what fucking difference does it make if someone on a desert island invents something and it never sees the light of day. What matters is that the Wright Brothers "invented" airplane aviation and spurred the development of manned flight. The facts some fellow off in the weeds tooled around somewhere else in some kind of flying machine is totally irrelevant for anything other than trivia, gossip -- or anti-American bullshit...