English: US vs. British

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by leopold, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    What separates the two? A few old spelling mistakes and some different appellations. Some colloquialisms which don't really hold in either mainstream. Very few alternative structures of phrase that are used in the UK already in dialect, or are perfectly acceptable phrases in informal speech. Does this constitute a new language?

    So the language remains English.
     
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    British people DO NOT speak like they did in victorian times. A few spelling changes but most people are aware of them. I dont think a u should be in color but it may belong in behaviour.
     
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  5. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Many more people using it, and in more influential ways (Hollywood, for one obvious example).

    Note the past tense, there - these days, America influences how English is used everywhere (including in England) much more than the UK does.

    So what? It also follows forms established in continental Europe, North America and various other places. It's not some fixed, static entity.

    Technically correct, in that said cessation occurred a long time ago. So the present participle there doesn't fit. You lost control literally centuries ago.

    Yes, it is. But not exclusively yours - its as much the property of Americans, Canadians, the Irish, etc. by now. And there's a lot more of us, than there are of you.

    Except for all of the places where we decide to change those rules as we see fit. Such being our prerogative, as you say.

    True enough. But a language is a living thing - where it came from, and where it now resides, need not be the same place. It's called "English" because that's where it originated - not because the people who live there now, centuries later, have any special status with regard to it.
     
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  7. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Did someone say it did?

    The assertion is that the American usage is the dominant, definitive one. Not that they are separate languages.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Really? How did "British people" speak in Victorian times?

    Such as?

    You don't think there should be a "u" in colour? Why? What particular rationale do you have for this?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    Depends on where you're from. Either cockney or like Shakespeare.


    Should be obvious. Notice the u in "obvious"?
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Right.

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    And they were the only possible "choices" of how to speak during Victorian times? Like a "cockney" or the way Bill did (from some 400 years earlier).
    You don't have a clue do you?

    I see. So because "obvious" has a u in it "colour" shouldn't?

    Edit: how, exactly, do you think Shakespeare spoke?
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    Well that settles it. The language has changed, even within the confines of the country. Game over...you lose. Dont pass go, dont collect $200.
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    In other words you realise you were talking bollocks.
     
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    You dont understand dialects or accents. Spelling changes are another matter.
     
  14. John99 Banned Banned

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    Where is the list of different spelling? i'd like to have a look at it.
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong, I understand British dialects/ accents quite well thank you.
    You have made specific claims: e.g.
    And then stated that during Victorian times people spoke either like a cockney or like Shakespeare.
    You have failed to support this since cockney is still around, as is a West Midlands accent. (And you've ignored the multitude of other British accents).

    And you have also failed to point out the claimed spellin changes (from victorian times) OR support your contention that "colour" should not have a "u" in it.
     
  16. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    You miss my point. The rules of English were established by the English people, therefore all branches off that are under predominantly our initial influence.



    You think US influences the English speakers in England more than we influence ourselves? Nonsensical.



    No it isn't fixed. But we wrote the rule book. It is still "English". It hasn't undergone evolution away from the core language.



    Use of the word cede implies that we relinquished something. Poor use of word here. Cede and cessation are different words. Are you confused, or changing your angle after the fact? Loss of control is irrelevant when the forms are still adhered to. Like I said, the differences are very minimal in the scheme of the languages identity.



    Irrelevant. Doesn't change the origins.



    Difference is minimal. With global communication foibles are of less importance. Firmly ensuring it will remain 'English'. American scholars do not 'change' anything. It is just about observation of differing usage.



    It is called English because that is what it is. Of course languages change and evolve. But the evolution of English from the time of the split is not nearly, nearly enough to warrant it being anywhere close to a different language. The application of English in America was subject to the UK's control until the US gained independance. That is why there is little modern difference. Do not fool yourself that formal US English is some how your own and distinct to any significant degree from the mother tongue.

    We will always garner special staus with regard to it because it is ours. Forged on our small isles. Spread across the world by the determination and ingenuity of our Men. You would do well to respect its origins, and the blood spilled for its emplacement.

    You fought for your independance and won it, so you have choices, but those choices are very limited, for to mess around with such a powerful language would be folly.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You're the one that claimed there have been spelling changes.

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  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    They still speak like Shakespear?
     
  19. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Someone said something about calling it American LOL.

    Definitive? LOL. How can a bastard be the true heir? So called easier spelling is the only factor worth remark.

    The point is the difference is so negligible as to not constitute a different language, so it is therefore still ours, from us not you.

    Apparently China have their own English, LOL.

    http://spot.colorado.edu/~calabres/qiong-china-english-2004.pdf
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    Easier spelling does make sense.
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Bearing in mind that you have no idea how Shaespeare actually spoke what's the point of your question?
    Largely, yes there still exist accents that sound like his.
    Shakespeare came from Stratford, near Birmingham. he may well have started with a Brummy accent, which would have been modifed by long periods spent in London. And, no, before you go assuming again a London accent (of which there are a number) is NOT a cockney accent.

    Regardless what does Shakespeare have to do Victorian speech?
     
  22. John99 Banned Banned

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    Anglo Saxon ring a bell?
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    John you're going to have to start being specific as opposed to posting vague hand-waving nonsense.
    Anglo-Saxon qua Anglo-Saxon was dead and gone for centuries.
     

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