Meditation can give you a better high then any drug. It can be even scarier then an acid trip as well. E, Acide, Meth, Coke, heroin,....I really do not consider them of any spiritual use at all. They are a high that is all. Depending on drugs for spiritual reasons can make you spiritually retareded. There are times when they are of use and there are times when they are not. Either way it is no something to exploit. If you are to use these "medicine" they are to be give respect. They are not your toy. You fuck with the Drugs and the drugs will fuck with you. There are many spiritual practices in the world that use "medicine" as a means to achieve a higher state of consiousness. I myself use mushrooms when I am at an utter lose for an awnser. They always come through, but it isn't always the answer that I want. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! People do Yoga for differnet reasons. I don't know many who do it for spiritual reasons. Same with drugs. Spirituality is not for every one.
For some people it takes drugs to realize these trances and supreme relaxations exist... Once they realize this they should want to learn to do them independant of drugs. This is why I quit.
That is not the point the idea is that the drug is a tool to obtaint the skill once the skill is obtianed the "ally" can be done away with. Because now they have joined with the ally. Remember this is a spiritual perception of a drug. In spirituality there are spiritual practices. Spirit meaning soul and spirit world. It doesn't really fit into an atheistic view.
Whatever it is both athiests and theists experience it, so it does fit in to an athiestic view, just because you are not willing to accept athiestic explanations does not mean you should pass that intolerance off as the truth.
I have never claimed to know the truth. One could equally say "just because you are not willing to accept spiritualist explanations does not mean you should pass that intolerance off as the truth". It is a rather black or white situation. To the best of my knowledge the spiritualistic way is to establish a relationship with existance and gain understanding through experiencing that what is. The atheistic view is to test what is, draw conclusions and test again. The atheist and the spiritualist will interact with there ally differently. Hence a spiritual view cannot be put into an atheist view because it will become an atheistic view. It has then lost its original meaning. It is not that one is better then the other just different.
Well, since Mushrooms seem to be the general spiritual drug of choice (am I wrong?) then lets look at the benefits and downsides; Threshold Effects : (from .25gm - .75gms P. Cubensis) Slight cold feeling, mild gas or nausea, nervous-feeling, slight pupil-dilation, mild visual changes including lights seeming brighter, lights having a 'starry' look, and noticing movement at the periphery of vision, giddiness, feeling more emotionally sensitive, and many other effects related to a change in neurochemistry. Medium Effects : (0.75gm - 2.5gms P. Cubensis) 'Cold' feeling, gas and/or stomach discomfort, nausea, pupil-dilation, open-eye visual effects: lights gain auras, star-pattern effects, rainbowing around lighting, lights seem brighter, often 'more beautiful', notice movement in periphery, sometimes increased ability to focus, sometimes reduced ability to focus, visual field 'distracting', visual field 'entertaining', closed eye 'visuals': normal closed eye 'blobs' take on patterns, shapes, distinct forms, increased ability to visualize creatively, spontaneous detailed images, feelings of time-dilation, feelings of `coming home again' which is often more pronounced for those who have used mushrooms before, feelings of belonging and connection, increased emotional sensitivity, increased ability to focus on emotional problems or memories, chance of becoming 'caught in a loop' thinking / dwelling on a single thought or feeling (usually negative or painful), realizations about past feelings, realizations about how to live, gain a new perspective on current lifestyle and behaviors, feelings of connection with those around you, noticing things which are normally ignored or taken for granted, feelings of wonder, spirit, joy, sadness, despair, religious awakening, contentment and possibly latent psychological crises can come out.. High Dose Effects : (2.5gm - 10gms) All of the Medium Effects, usually with a significantly more uncomfortable Coming Up, more pronounced nausea sometimes (rarely) resulting in vomiting, sometimes significant mental discomfort associated with feelings of fear and often times accompanying a "what have I done to myself" or "how far am I going" thought, the unpleasant Coming Up effects usually lessen with familiarity and more knowledge about the safety and character of mushroom effects. High Dose Effects are usually characterized by the closed eye visualizations being significantly more elaborate and enfolding, religious revelation, spiritual awakening, near death experiences, loss of self, talking to seemingly external, autonomous entities, extreme emotional responses, repressed memories coming to life, latent psychological crises can come to the surface, intense feelings of wonder, connection, joy, fear. High Dose Effects can also include extreme time-dilation, with experiences of wall-clock minutes taking an experientially large amount of time, watching clocks or digital counters where the seconds seem to take minutes to count off. One of the most interesting effects is the feeling of awakening for the first time ever from a previous state of sleep, of liberation from what is now seen as a life-long state of bondage. Paradoxically, it is this new awareness which feels normal and natural and the previous fog which is seen to have been unreal all along. The bemushroomed seeker is convinced that, once gained, this awareness is impossible to lose, but inexplicably by the next day it is just a memory. Interesting to take into account. I do not condone the use of drugs, but clearly for certain individuals, it can be a valuable aid (one to be discarded like training wheels). As this thread points out it is an assistance, nothing more.
Dionysus, Exactly. Those definitions were perfect. It was ON mushrooms that I decided to quit drugs all together. I find mushrooms to be the most spiritual drugs of all. Ecstasy is also spiritual but it has less truth to it. It just induces the spiritual feeling. Mushrooms backs up that feeling with spiritual revelations, being able to see things as they are, and knowing what you have to do next...
Some ones been to Arowid.orgPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! How I precieve mushrooms it that they disolve the alter-ego. It shakes the bondage of the alter-ego and allows you to be at one. The awarness follows. I personaly did not lose the whole awareness the next day. It was not to the same extent, but it was still there and has only grown with time. Mushrooms are a teacher the dissolve teh alter-ego and teach many lessons in a state where you are receptive. What you learn does not leave. You may lose the state of being that comes with mushrooms but you keep the lessons. The state is a glimpse of real consciousness. If you seek with an open heart you can true attain consciousness. It is almost like temporary stillness. On the metaphysical side mushrooms seems to release energy blockages in the body/Mind/Spirit. Its effects seems to be temporary so like I said earlier it seems like a temporary stillness. Consciousness can be obtained when these blocked energies are attended to. Ei: Through meditation, yoga, chigung, t'ai-chi, sweet lodge.......
Continuing on what Empty was saying, It's like mushrooms peels away all the layers of BS that has been piled on, one at a time, since being a child, and you're finally able to be truly YOU again. This is why it feels normal and the previous 'fog' feels abnormal. Because most of your life you're hiding who you truly are. From others, and from yourself. Mushrooms takes that option away and leaves you face to face with yourself. For the strong willed and strong minded, this is a chance to study yourself. For the weak minded it will probably result in a bad trip, and they will never stop to concider it's a reflection of their whole life. So instead of fixing their life, they just never do mushrooms again, so they never have to see it as a whole again. I no longer do mushrooms, or any drugs for that matter, because I feel I am in touch with myself. At least enough that doing drugs would do more harm than good. The rest of the 'journey' I will do on my own, day-to-day.
I believe that Acid has had deep spiritual meaning to some users. I think it's a synthesized version of substances that can already be found in nature. But acid destroys your brain. So I doubt I shall ever do it. I only believe in the use of naturaly occuring herbs and medicines. And I won't recomend that -anyone- do drugs as party drugs. Even in traditional use they are not for getting high. But for learning lessons about the self and the universe. That is all that I use them for.
psychedelics are indeed mind growing. they should only be used when the mind is healthy; fresh and clean. it's easy to justify drug abuse with spirituality, to succumb to the hurtful entertainment they can give.
:m: Often gets me very philosophical, I know many who also feel this way while smoking. It also has certain traditional useses in shamanistic rituals that are now long forgotten. Ok, I admit, :m: isn't perhaps a direct form of selfexpolration as some might define it, but I might argue that it's a lifestyle much like a buddhist monk spends his life in dreaming meditation. I don't smoke every day, just 1-4 times a month I would easily stop if I was convinced it was doing me harm. But as I see it I am happy, relaxed and far from lethargic. It isn't for everyone ofcourse, everyperson must find what is good for themselves. Noone should do 'a drug' if they feel the slightest bit apprehensive about it, and definately no to 'be cool'. Just a note: LSD is very similar to the LSA found in the plants Morning Glory and Hawiian Baby Woodrose. Which both have much spiritual tradition.
Though it should be noted that chinese physicians have been in contact with Marijuana for a long time. They are close to to Vietnam, Laos and Pakistan. They found that these substances damaged the kidneys and liver and lodged resin seridues in the bones of the forehead, that slowly leached into the brain with undersirable results. Though I am not sure of how frequnetly or how large a quantity this was based on. It was used in Chinese medicine at time.
I just want to say to anyone who is thinking about using psychedelics for self expolration, be carefull, responsible, and research into that which you are taking. This guide is quite usefull http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/psychedelic_experience/psychedelic_experience.shtml and the main site http://www.erowid.org is also a goldmine of information. Note: I am not promoting the use of illegal substances or otherwise harmfull activities. And I am not recomending them either.
Thats very interesting as it contradicts all the scientific studies carried out by western medicine. Can you provide a link or source?
What a lot of sensible remarks about drugs! I can absolutely and completely vouch for the fact that drugs (marijuana anyway) can shine a light on personal existence. However I agree that it's a dangerous way of going about it. This discussion is based on the premise that pschoactive drugs affect our physiology in a way that other foodstuffs do not. In fact of course everything we ingest affects us, and most of what we eat is just what we have evolved to become dependent on in a manner precisely analagous to 'drug' dependency. Of course the sort of 'drugs' discussed here, legal or otherwise, generally have a more noticeably novel affect on consciousness than carrots. I suspect that one of their main affects is to disrupt our thinking and thus allow us to focus more on our consciousness, producing not so much a still mind as a stunned one, but a similar if 'fake' kind of exerience to meditation. By noticing such new states of consciousness we can learn that consciousness has wider bounds than we may have realised previously. This can lead to an interest in inner exploration and contemplation. This seems no bad thing in our physicalist society.
