Dozens of heretics killed of in Pakistan... yet, again.

No, she isn't. Projection, it's called.

You brought in, for example, "Satan" - an entity not mentioned or referred to in the quote of reference, or by anyone else.

That's not what it illustrates.

It illustrates the mechanism of formation for a target, or despised, group - people of a lesser and inferior faith, if any.

And sure enough:

There appears to be considerable disagreement among various Muslims as to the teachings of Islam. We on the outside, meanwhile, have to deal with the Islam that exists and the teachings that are followed by lots of people, regardless of their theological validity within the more learned or sophisticated Muslim sects.

No. Kinda like the opposite of them, if you are going to wheel in that elephant.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

How is that any different from those dealing with the "democracy" that exists or the "secularism" that exists? Ultimately, whatever the ideology, the corruption of it has one common cause: people

Is secular waterboarding easier to tolerate? Do the un-Islamic drones that have killed a thousand people stand for something better?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

How? Does does sura 109 do this?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Agreed, the Soviets purged and killed each other off en masse and were militant Atheists.

 

By adding interpretation to the verses:

Note the hidden evil of saying - let us agree to disagree.

Clearly this is how two opinions are created on the same issue. While some morons may call it "freedom of expression", when it applies to Muslims, its clearly sectarian strife. How else could it be, having a religion with only one absolute authority to determine whats right and no academic worth his salt with the balls to contest the notion?

 

It isn't.

So?

 

What precisely are you saying?

 

If its about Muslims, there has to be something wrong with it, even if its not apparent until its interpreted to show the "truth".

Dude, what century are you living in? Haven't you heard of jihad and other evils?

 

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

hehe

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

So..there are justifications for whatever you choose.

"And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation
Otherwise than in a most kindly manner -
Unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing -
And say: "We believe in that which has been bestowed
From on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you:
For our God and your God is one and the same,
And it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves." - Quran 29: 46.

 

No it wouldn't. Everyone has a different opinion of what good and bad is. Good is following Muhammad. Bad is not. Good is stoning women for adultery. How can a Christian, who engages in Shirk, per the Koran, go to paradise?

 

? So what?

When you decide to come to some kind of a point, don't be shy.

 

It doesn't appear to be about Muslims at all but more about Islam and the fine line of it's interpretation between delusion and insanity.

 

It's a good place to start from, one where we acknowledge that it's possible any/all belief systems are equally as likely as any other to be valid/true. That goes for atheism (even though this is a complete lack of belief), Islam, Xianity, Scientology, Judaism, Buddhism, etc....

Beginning from this position we can think about and discuss the sophistication each system of belief has to offer.

How's that sound? Calmer?

Take the time I was speaking with the Buddhist Priest in Japan. I said I don't believe in an afterlife, or karma, or even Buddha to be honest. He said I might be right. I even asked some other Buddhists independently, they said the same.

Think of it as the fair go you give a new person you've just met. Do you think: This guys' Indian, I will like him, but I will not like the Chinese guy because Chinese are inferior. No way, we don't think like that. Or, at least in multicultural societies, we shouldn't. AFTER we meet the person, yeah, we my find we really get on, or not.

Did you know that White Supremacists WASP say the exact same thing. How on earth can calling for the peaceful co-existence of separate races be intolerant bigotry? How on earth can the peaceful co-existence of separate belief systems be intolerant bigotry?

We (Whites) desire to live in our own neighborhoods, go to our own schools, work in our own cities and towns, and ultimately live as one extended family in our own nation. We shall end the racial genocide of integration. We shall work for the eventual establishment of a separate homeland for African Americans, so each race will be free to pursue its own destiny without racial conflicts and ill will.​

See, he thinks exactly like your Sura. Each to their own. White's with Whites, Blacks with Black.

What do you think about that? Seem fair enough? Or, does it seem like something is wrong somewhere? What do you think about White Supremacy? How does it feel when you hear a WASP telling his Kids that Arabs and Blacks and Persians are inherently inferior races? How does it make a Hindu feel when she hears you telling your kids that Hindus and Buddhist are inherently sinful/inferior belief systems?

Did it really shock us when a group WASP egg-heads murdered a pregnant Portuguese woman riding home on the train a few months back (apparently they thought she was Arab). And yet year the paragraph: WASPs aren't calling for violence. And yeah, 99.9 out of 100 WASPs are pretty peaceful otherwise decent hard working good honest people, who simply don't want a mixing of their Superior White Race with the Lesser inferior sinful Races. They want their "Perfect" White Race to be left "Pure". AND YET..... that woman was murdered for be a mistaken Arab. Hmmmm.... must be a one off hey? OR, just maybe, there's something about being an intolerant ass-wipe that brings out the worst in some people. Sadly, an unnecessary intolerance at that.

Think about those ideas: Pure race. Perfect race. Pure Islam. Perfect Qur'an. ARE these unnecessary intolerance?

Why is it, do you suppose, all those hundreds of Ahmadiyya Muslims were murdered in Pakistan? Why is it that the majority of the Indonesian Muslim public are calling for Ahmadiyya Muslim's belief to be made illegal? Why is it that Sufi Muslims were murdered last week? It must seem shocking to you - given your Sura. Each to their own. Just as shocking as it is to David Duke, when he hears of a WASP skin-head White Supremest killing a pregnant Portuguese women on a train.

Yet, I don't find it at all perplexing. You know, when you think about it, it's not at all shocking is it? I'm sure you know exactly what motives more than 80% of Indonesian Muslims to call for Ahmadiyya Muslim's to be jailed for the crime of their Sinful faith. You're not surprised at all are you? Me neither.




I mean, you yourself have labeled these other faiths as Sinful. Implying of course there is something inherently wrong with their faith. As a matter of fact, the world would be a better place without these sinful faiths, would it not? It'd be a better world if everyone where Muslim? Yes? WASPs think the same way about the other races.

Just remember, this week alone, close to 100 Sufi were murdered because of these ideas that YOU perpetuate. There is only One True God, One True Book and One True Last Prophet. Think about your ideology. Can you see how it's intolerant and bigoted? Can't you see how that has led directly to the murder of these people? And for what? Why? Just to perpetuate more intolerance. One God, One Book, One Prophet. Unnecessary intolerances every one of them, yet here we are, another 100 people murdered over them AGAIN - sad isn't it?

I'm curious. If you were to tell us one thing you have learned from studying the Qur'an. Something that you personally consider an Islamically enlightened position on the human condition, something that is from Allah and is not expressed in the other "human" mundane theologies (such as sinful Buddhism or flawed Christianity as they ponder the human condition) - what would that something be?

I said, you may be right. Islam may be true. Though I can't believe Islam. I can concede that point. I can no more believe Islam than you can believe Xenu or change your eye color. See, it's impossible for me just ,as it's impossible for you to believe in Xenu. Funny that, if you stop to think about it, your perpetuating a belief system that teaches eternal damnation for people not being able to believe in Allah. Why not make it blue eyes instead and be done with the charades? It'd be easier. That way when people are murdered for their blue eyes you can turn to your sura and say, hey!?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

- I like visiting Temples to various Gods. In particular I like nature deities. I like the rituals and the aesthetics.
- I actually do not think atheism is a good ideology for the general populace. At least not at this time. People don't seem to thrive as well under atheism as they do under theism.
- Sure, Islam was probably perfectly fine for people living in a little village somewhere on the coast of the Arabian peninsula 600 years ago. But, that's not the world we live in today.
- Teaching people intolerant belief systems, such as yours, is not good in a multicultural world. But, also, teaching people a atheist belief system such as mine is also not good at this level of social development.
- So? What to do? Well, IMO, we need something totally new. While that isn't going to happen any time soon, we should, for now, at least work to educate people NOT to fall for these intolerance perpetuating memes like Perfect, Pure, Only, Sinful, Race. I think a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses would be one way to go as that at least injects a high level of tolerance. Or, alternatively, a pantheon of Aliens? Whichever. From my POV it seems Buddhism and Polytheism would be a good starting place. Buddhism having a lot of philosophical perspectives to offer any polytheism.

No, that's not quite right. More like removing the police (Saddam) from South-side LA (Iraq) and watching the Bloods -vs- Crips gang violence erupt (Sunni -vs- Shia) from the safety of a drone (yes, a drone).

The USA needs oil and may be in the start of the death throws - Iran has a lot of oil. As you know, after the Roman Republic fell, the Roman Empire lived on and people greatly prospered. I don't think the USA is going to become an Empire, but, more war seems inevitable. Unfortunately.

 

I already made my point. :shrug:

see?

Now watch the volunteers line up to justify what they do

Its easy enough to find a reason for killing. If you google "hominid violence" you can find instances of people fighting for resources to well before the stone age. Faith, hope, love and charity are social engineering designed to overcome the pre-neanderthal instinct to take and keep on taking, and damn the consequences. Religion is what keeps man from succumbing to his instincts. But as the entirely 100% volunteer American armies around the world prove, its an uphill climb all the way.

These heretics killed in Pakistan? Like the sectarian strife in Iraq and the religious fundamentalism in Afghanistan? Its all the collateral damages of strategems to divide and rule. History is the best teacher, after all and with enough power and financing, any community can be destroyed so its resources become cheap and accessible.

Islam doesn't interpret itself. The "Human Factor" can't be so easily set aside.

 

Pakistan passed a Law in the 1970s to make every Muslim applying for a passport condemn the Ahmadiyya faith as heretical. I don't seem to remember India doing that? Do you? They were a colony weren't they? In this year 2010 Indonesian Muslims overwhelmingly support banning the Ahmadiyya faith BY LAW. I don't seem to remember Singapore doing that. Do you? Malaysia OTOH has many such bigoted laws regarding religion on their books.

One God, One Book, One Prophet - the Ahmadiyya broke two of these Laws so mainsteam Islam (Muslims such as yourself) say their faith is inherently wrong, many Muslims say these are sinful people.Muslims don't like sinners SAM. They like to see Sinners punished... severely.


Or it's all America's fault. Phew.... that sounds good and required little to no thinking... Yup always America's fault. Same thing with Chinese Communism, would of worked if it weren't for America.

 

An uphill climb all the way...

 

Reiteration

I can only reiterate my prior consideration of these issues.

 

I agree that German's banning Scientology and Israel passing a law giving right of return to Jews while keeping non-Jewish natives as refugees are excellent parallel examples and are equally as wrong.

Now, in the case of the Jews, they have a little problem called: One God, One Book, One People. As for the Germans? They're German! Where the hell do you think all these Jews came from! Seriously though, Scientology isn't, as of yet, banned in Germany. You can be a Scientologist, you're not going to jail. As of yet Germans don't sign a paper when they apply for a Passport condemning Scientologist as Heretics. That said, please SAM, could you imagine being a Scientologist in Iran, Iraq, KSA? You'd be murdered outright. I wonder why? Let me guess? The CIA

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!