Pitbulls and some other breeds are one thing. But well-domesticated mutts and some kindly inclined breeds are something else when it comes to the proverbial relationship of cats and dogs ...
dogs are not wolves. Currently the Canidae taxonomy is as below. Canidae * Alopex * Alopex lagopus (Arctic fox) * Atelocynus * Atelocynus microtis (small-eared dog) * Canis * Canis adustus (side-striped jackal) * Canis aureus (golden jackal) * Canis familiaris (dog) * Canis latrans (coyote) * Canis lupus (gray wolf) * Canis lupus baileyi (Mexican gray wolf) * Canis lupus chanco (Mongolian wolf) * Canis lupus hodophilax (Japanese wolf) * Canis lupus pallipes (Indian wolf) * Canis lycaon (eastern Canadian wolf) * Canis mesomelas (black-backed jackal) * Canis mesomelas elongae (eastern African black-backed jackal) * Canis rufus (red wolf) * Canis simensis (Ethiopian wolf) * Canis sp. * Chrysocyon * Chrysocyon brachyurus (maned wolf) * Cuon * Cuon alpinus (dhole) * Dusicyon * Dusicyon thous (crab-eating fox) * Lycaon * Lycaon pictus (African hunting dog) * Nyctereutes * Nyctereutes procyonoides (raccoon dog) * Nyctereutes procyonoides koreensis * Nyctereutes procyonoides procyonoides * Otocyon * Otocyon megalotis (bat-eared fox) * Pseudalopex * Pseudalopex culpaeus (culpeo fox) * Pseudalopex griseus (Argentine gray fox) * Pseudalopex gymnocercus (pampas fox) * Pseudalopex sechurae (Sechura desert fox) * Pseudalopex vetulus (hoary fox) * Speothos * Speothos venaticus (bush dog) * Urocyon * Urocyon cinereoargenteus (gray fox) * Urocyon littoralis (island gray fox) * Vulpes * Vulpes chama (cape fox) * Vulpes corsac (Corsac fox) * Vulpes macrotis (kit fox) * Vulpes macrotis zinseri * Vulpes velox (kit fox) * Vulpes vulpes (red fox) * Vulpes zerda (fennec fox) * Vulpes sp.
Seeing as how dogs can and do breed with wolves and produce fertile offspring aren't they automatically the same species? I hear canis lupus familiaris everywhere including scientific articles.
please provide the references. this canid taxonomy is the official accepted taxonomy for the government, universities, and museums http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy/Browser/wwwtax.cgi?id=9608
The research is very recent. It just made it into National Geographic last year. It hasn't had time to filter down into all the publications and websites. The difference in DNA between a mongrel dog and a wolf is less than that between two extreme breeds of dog, say a Basset hound and a Saluki. Moreover, it is far less than the difference between a human from Norway and one from Borneo, whom we regard as a single species. Dogs and wolves are like reindeer and caribou: one species, but over thousands of years a few noticeable differences have been selected in the domesticated population. Wolves are simply one breed of dog: the original. All dogs are descended from a wolf population in China. The wolves there today have the same genetic markers that all dogs have. That means that wolves joined humans in a multi-species community in just one place, and humans took their dogs with them everywhere they went and/or traded them with other tribes, rather than repeating the process of domestication all over the planet. The only major, consistent differences between a dog and a wolf are: 1. The teeth halfway back in their jaws (I don't remember what they're called) have lost the blade-like shape that allows wolves to easily rip the meat off a fresh kill, and instead are shaped more like molars for a scavenging lifestyle. 2. Their brains are a bit smaller. Brains need a lot of protein, and the diet of a scavenger does not provide as much as that of a nearly full-time predator. 3. They almost instinctively accept humans as equals and even pack leaders, whereas to wolves we are competitors at best, enemies at worst. All of the other differences in the various breeds are the result of selective breeding (some of which goes back 8,000 years almost to the dawn of civilization) and can easily be mixed back into a dog that looks pretty much like a dingo in just a couple of generations of hybridization. As for the question about dogs being able to crossbreed with wolves. This does not make them the same species, it makes them the same genus. (Such as horses, asses, and zebras; or bison, steers, and Asian buffalo.) Being the same species, these days, seems to be a judgment call on the part of the zoological community, and they're revising their taxonomies wholesale since the advent of DNA analysis. Dogs/wolves, coyotes, and jackals are the three best known members of genus Canis. Dog-coyote hybrids are quite common in the Southwest. Wolf-coyote hybrids have established populations where their ranges overlap on the fringes of civilization in the East. Jackals (which are more than one species) don't live in our hemisphere so I don't know anything about their breeding habits. However, the new taxonomies play havoc with the traditional definition of a genus. None within the dog family Canidae, but plenty within Felidae, the cats. Housecats and ocelots used to be counted as genus Felis, as were the lion and tiger. Now the lion and tiger are in a new genus Panthera, and the ocelot is in a new genus Leopardus. The problem is that housecats and ocelots can be easily crossbred. You can find ocicats in the want ads in any big city newspaper. How can they interbreed if they're in two different genera? I've been asking that question for ten years and nobody has given me an answer. The same thing happens with parrots. The hyacinth macaw (the poster child of the endangered species movement) is genus Anodorhynchus and the blue-and-gold macaw (the most popular pet macaw) is genus Ara. Yet they have been successfully hybridized. Dogs are wolves. Wolves are dogs. It will take a while for thousands of books on dogs to be rewritten.
I just want one scientific reference that says that the Canis taxonomy has been revised. Just ONE! I haven't found any, because I don't think the taxonomy has been revised. But I'll keep searching.
"In 1993, the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists reclassified the dog from its separate species designation of Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris. So, now, the Timber Wolf (Canis lupus nubilus), the Mackanzie or Tundra Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis), the dog (Canis lupus familiaris), etc, fall under the genetic umbrella of the gray wolf: Canis lupus." http://www.dossu.org/dogs.html A bit more scientific perhaps; http://www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.htm
those aren't scientific references, but I was able to use them to find one, i.e., the following is a real scientific reference, http://www.nmnh.si.edu/cgi-bin/wdb/msw/synonyms/query/12029 so thanks for that; i was wrong you both were right, thanks for the correction, and good job on your dog research. Part of the reason I was wrong is that Canis familiaris has continually been incorrectly used in the scientific literature, i.e; from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15101402 Which is disconcerting since one of the authors, Rob Fleischer, a colleague of mine, works as a curator at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum.
This is a very interesting thread with alot of insightful posts. I am a life long animal lover and cat lover in particular. But I like dogs too and understand their prey drive. And I have never blamed dogs for killing cats. I put the blame on the dog owners who let their dogs run loose or train them to be attack dogs. That is so sad. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I have had 2 pet dogs and 10 pet cats in my life. And I always made sure my dogs were on my property and not causing trouble elswhere. I have always tried to be a responsible pet owner. Recently in my area a rottweiller/pitbull mix killed 7 pet cats in it's area over a period of time. The dog was unlicensed and he was impounded several times only to be released to his negligent owner again and again. I don't know about you but if my dog got out and killed the neighbors cat I would be mortified and apologetic. But this dog owner whose dog killed 7 pet cats didn't even offer an apology to anyone. All he said was that the cats instigated his dog. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! People like that shouldn't have dogs. But while this rottweiller/pitbull mix killed 7 pet cats Dr Lou posted that recently in his area a dog was euthanized for killing an astronomical 42 cats in 1 week! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! OMG! How on earth did that happen and why was that allowed to happen? I can't imagine a dog being allowed to kill 42 cats in 1 week. I wonder if most of those cats were stray cats. It's hard to imagine 1 dog getting a hold of 42 pet cats in 1 week and killing them. And Dr Lou, what kind of dog was this, a huge Mastiff? Probably not. A Mastiff would be too big and slow to catch 42 cats. The bottom line is that dogs are generally great pets. But dogs need to have good pet owners. That is crucial to their developement and temperment as pets. And I don't blame the dogs for killing cats becasue it's their nature. Their prey drive makes it natural for them the way a cats prey drive leads it to killing mice and birds. But the main difference is that the mice and birds cats kill aren't someone's much loved pet the way cats killed by dogs are. That's why dogs killing cats especially pet cats is so sad. And alot of the cats killed by dogs could have been avoided if the dogs had better owners. But it's also vital for cat owners to know the area where they live and whether it has big roaming dogs and alot of traffic that would pose serious threats to their cats health. I know pet cats should be safe outside on their property. But they are vulerable to dogs, racoons and even other cats, particularly aggressive Tomcats. I think it's time cat owners took better care of their cats and kept them inside more than they do.
Yes, but I put great stock in the doctrine of contributory negligence. If I leave my Porsche in a dark alley with the keys in it at 3am and it's gone when I come back, of course whoever took it should be punished. But I'm an idiot for having left it like that. There are unfortunately a lot of bad dogs out there and while we should find their owners and put them all in stocks, cat owners have the responsibility to adjust their behavior to respond to reality. Actually most breeds of dogs don't have the hunting drive. Our Maltese, one of the very oldest breeds (interesting how when humans finally figured out selective breeding, one of the first things they did with dogs was create some that were a lot smaller), has absolutely no predatory instinct. She will chase a ball or another dog that wants to play, but she'll sit quietly and watch a chipmunk or a vole scamper right past her. In general, dogs have been bred to be scavengers rather than hunters, so they'd clean up the garbage in our camps. Only a few breeds were bred to retain the hunting instinct so they could be used as hunting companions, the job their ancestors originally signed up for. And most of them only find, chase, or retrieve game, rather than actually killing it themselves. Only the huge livestock guard dogs like the Akbash and Rhodesian Ridgeback and Anatolian Guardian have been really bred to kill, and even then if the lion or bear or wolf runs away instead of fighting they won't chase after it. Pitbulls were developed by some really nasty human beings for the sole purpose of fighting other animals or each other for sport. I feel sorry for the dogs, but I'd love to put their owners in a pit with a few polar bears. Rottweilers are even sadder. They were bred by the Romans to be draft animals, to pull carts! They're supposed to be as gentle and docile as horses. Breeding the killing instinct back into them should be a capital offense. Yes, and cats seem to "get it" that some animals are wild and therefore fair game, while others are members of the family. Our Persian cats let our canaries and other tiny birds fly all over the house, sit next to them, and even bathe in their huge water dish, without batting an eye. One time when we came home late and it had gotten dark -- most birds are flat blind at night -- we found our three cats sitting in a protective circle around a bird that had gotten stranded on the floor. Our dogs, on the other hand, have over the years wiped out several of our pet birds. Not the Maltese, but the Lhasa Apsos. They're both legally blind and aggressive. Anything that moves is a toy to them. Most of the authorities go a step further and say that all cats should be kept indoors, period. Most cats just won't stay in their yards, and even if they do, most fences won't keep out either a determined bad dog or a wild predator. It's important for all Americans to realize that the coyote is becoming a universal threat. The animal rights fanatics have gotten virtually all municipal governments to stop their "coyote abatement" programs. On top of that, the coyote's only natural predator is the wolf, and we've done our best to run them out of the country. North America used to be divided into wolf territory and coyote territory. Now it's slowly becoming 100 percent coyote territory except for a few places in the West. Areas like the Washington DC suburbs are starting to have to deal with coyotes the way we always have in California. So if you have a cat -- or even a dog under 20 pounds -- be forewarned. Don't leave them outside without close oversight. The coyotes are coming. Don't let them catch you by surprise. We've got one of those giant Anatolian Guardian dogs and she keeps all of our little pets safe. Everyone else in our neighborhood has had a bear in their pantry or seen a cougar staking out their property. The predators don't come anywhere near our five acres. (Oddly, we don't have coyotes up in the redwood forest yet, but she'd eat two of them for breakfast.)
It's funny how that happens sometimes, Enigma. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! That was a phenomenal and educational post Fraggle! Especially about prey drive and how some dogs have it towards cats and some dogs don't. You have a fair grip on the animal kingdom especially where cats and dogs are concerned. How big is your guard dog? I think we agree that cat owners bear some resposibilty for the well being of their cats when they are off their property. But no cat owner thinks their cat will get killed by a dog or hit by a car when they let them outside. And most cats like to go outside and enjoy themselves. But that can be a dangrerous risk. Dr Lou pointed out that a dog was recently euthanized in his area for killing 42 cats. That's an astronomical number and a horrific story! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And I wonder how that happened. But apparently it did. I know alot of cat owners have to regret letting their cat outside only to be killed by a dog or hit by a car. I know my cats won't go outside as often as they used to. It's for their own good. I enjoyed reading about your wild kingdom Fraggle. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
as an ad. to this post . some of my companions rabit hunt. my fox hound(glory)trys her best to keep up w/ my german short haired pointer(smokey) but he will eventuly corner one and she moves in to take it. they both share in the meat.
