Does God know everything ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, May 26, 2017.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

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    188
    Everybody knows that words have definitions. Definitions consist of other words, which is a problem.
    There must have been a first word, which couldn't be defined using other words, as there were none.
    However, we managed to overcome this difficulty, probably by some kind of demonstration.

    Theologians are fond of definitions of supernatural objects, as they can't use demonstrations.
    So they invent a name, such as "God", which may or may not be a proper name. They want it it refer to something outside their heads and in order to give the word meaning, they need a definition.

    Of course, they could define "God" anyway they like, but they want God to be something special.
    They want God to be an powerful agent, usually a friendly, but judgemental fatherly figure, who is capable of responding to human needs in a useful way. It is hoped that God will help them now and/or later.
    They have invented magical rituals designed to appease God and invoke his intervention.

    One of the parts of the definition is that God is "all-knowing". They are aware that knowledge is powerful and as they want God to be powerful (and therefore useful to have on their side), then God "must" be all-knowing.
    It is thought that God, therefore, must know the future, including future thoughts.

    So, on Sunday 21st May 2017, did God know what was going to happen the next day in the UK at the Manchester Arena ? Yes, of course, because it follows from the definition given to the word God.

    Could God have inspired the security services of that fine city to stop a certain man from entering the Arena ?
    Could God have introduced a simple fault in the bomb that the man had strapped to him, to make it fail to detonate or some other way of preventing the critical injuries to many people, including children ?

    Yes, because God, by definition knows the future and can also intervene in the world, if he wishes.

    Perhaps he didn't intervene, because that would be a "free-will" violation?
    Perhaps it was a part of God's plan, some greater, non-obvious objective ?
    Perhaps the definition of God should be changed ?
     
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  3. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps he is a sick-minded Muslim god, and thought it was a good idea.

    Perhaps he is a sick-minded Christian god, and just let it happen.
     
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Language is relatively new. For example, written language was invented about 3200BC. Language is a very useful tool, but it has limitations. It can be used to exchange meaning, but it can also be used to confuse meaning. The internet is full of written language, much of which looks valid in terms of structure, but which is often nonsense in terms of meaning.

    Picture this scenario. We assemble one person from each language of the earth for a total of 6906 people. In the middle of this large conference room I place a cat. We ask each person to describe, with words from their native tongue, what they see. There may be hundreds of different noises and sounds to describe the cat. Language is subjective and arbitrary in terms of assigning a meaning/noise correspondence. There is no universal standards, only man made conventions. Meow is sort of a natural sound for cat, but it is not chosen.

    Although the sounds used to the describe the cat may be very variable,all 6906 people in the room will see the same thing. Unlike the verbal language, the visual language is universal and natural. It does not need to be learned, but is innate and is common to all humans. All the verbal languages are learned and are not natural.

    The wisdom of God would come to us through the universal natural language of sight; vision and the mind's eye. Once you start to use verbal language, even if it starts out clear, it has the subjective problem of human noise. For example, even those who say the bible is God's truth, will often have different interpretations based on verbal languages; noise appears.

    One problem with the visual language is, although it is common to all, we can't easily transfer this visual language between two people. You can't see what I see. I can't imagine something and get this visual data directly into your visual cortex. Verbal language bridges this gap, but has noise problems, so people can't always see eye to eye, unless they both witness the same thing.

    However, as a solo person, each of us has access to the universal language of sight. God's wisdom is often described as a private journey instead of a herd thing. Enlightenment is a path for each person due to the nature of the universal visual language. This is where things become common to all.

    Before verbal language, thought was mostly based on sight, and after images in the imagination. With the invention of verbal language, thinking became more and more mediated by the subjectivity of verbal language. To many people, they can't even think without verbal language and assume it is required for thinking. This is not true, since it is possible to use the visual language to think. However, it has the limitations of not being easily transferred to others, unless you add the noise of verbal language. Faith is connected the universal language which often has noise problems when you try to use verbal language to transfer this to another.
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Slight problem:
    Please show that it is in fact a visual language.
     
  8. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    6,186
    Visually language

    No such animal

    Closest

    Sign language which is viewed

    And there are a few variations of those

    May be so called body language

    Gamblers tells

    A few other types some specific some vague

    Most a version of verbal language

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  9. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Ugg means Ugg in any current language

    Ugg Ugg however takes up one whole wall of the cave with over 20 definetions

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  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    9,184
    This is not true. Interpreting what we see is a learned behavior.

    Countless experiments show that interpretations can be changed. Several methods have been alluded-to in recent threads.

    1. Wearing prism goggles will cause your vision to appear inverted. After a while your brain will compensate. Remove the goggles and your vision will again be inverted until your brain compensates.

    2. Experiments with poor cute little kittens have shown that their interpretation of the world is learned. Kittens first opening their eyes were exposed to environments that had no straight horizontal or vertical components, just diagonals and curves. When subsequently exposed to our "normal" world, the kittens were unable to navigate because they couldn't recognize the floor as horizontal or the walls as vertical.
     
  11. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    15,241
    IF god knows every thing which exists & every cause of every thing & has the capacity to process all that info, it could predict the future.
    Many have said that if god knows the future, we cannot have free will. If the future is known, it must be set.
    More so, it seems if I know my future, I cannot have free will. Either what I know is the future or it is not. If I know my future, I cannot avoid it.
    If god knows its future, how could it possibly have free will? If god does not have free will, it cannot be omnipotent & it is not worthy of worship.

    <>
     
  12. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    6,186
    I would contend that there is a subtle difference between

    you knowing your future and

    you not knowing your future but

    someone else god knowing

    If you know your future exactly how MUCH do you know?

    If you know every second of every day you can switch off and cruse on auto pilot

    If you know 2 years in advance you will be at such and such a place

    You still have free will to

    choose your pathway there

    even with the knowledge that some way some how you will finish up at a predetermined destination

    Having a predetermined destination does not preclude you picking your own pathway

    If you DON'T know any of your destinations and even if god does know you have free will to choose your pathways

    at least until god says

    Come upstairs

    or

    Go to hell

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  13. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    There is the other problem it seems with the book keeping

    It appears he writes down all your good deeds and

    all your sins

    So while he may KNOW everything

    recalling that knowledge appears to be problematic

    Can you be said to know something if you cannot recall it?

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  14. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    HUMOR HERE!---> Reply to the OP . . . . YES, God does know everything and he has imparted that knowledge (His Secrets of the Universe!) to ME (Senior Scientist of the Universe, SSU). But He warned me not to frivolously share the imparted knowledge with just anyone. So, pay very close attention to my posts and you will learn much! <--- HUMOR HERE! HAHAHA!
     
  15. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Why is recalling knowledge problematic for god?

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  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    As I said above, if the future is known, it must be set. If somehow that might not be the future after all, the future is not known.

    <>
     
  17. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Because he has to write things down in a book da

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  18. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Which future?

    The one which happen in the next second?

    Or the one 10 million years from now?

    Or any of the futures between?

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  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Does God know "he" is God?
     
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Any part or all of the future. IF it is known, it will happen. If what is supposedly known does not happen, it was not known.

    <>
     
  21. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    True

    I know I am going to tap out the next word in this post

    I don't know what I will be doing in 10 million years time

    However this is a offshore of a offshoot and my post a few posts back was more about free will

    On topic

    Does god know everything?

    Look around

    Nice sunsets

    Volcanoes

    Seahorses

    Humans

    NO he doesn't know everything

    Let me know when he gets the

    physical mix and the life mix right and

    I will revisit my view

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  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Did you know for certain you would tap out that next word? Nothing could have prevented it?

    <>
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily.

    (Not that I want to give any credence to the concept of an omniscient entity of any sort, but...)

    God may see all futures, thus he knows each one of them, and can freely experience all of them simultaneously, yet still have the power to choose a single one of them for us poor mortals to experience.

    If I were going to conceive of an entity free from the constraints of time, that is how I would do it. It would only be a human shortcoming to think in terms of a single "the" future.
     

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