Does God care about atheists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't. I have answered them as well as I can. If you are atheist, why do you concern yourself with God, or belief in God?

    If you really want to know, then find out from scriptures.

    Jan.
     
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So you say.

    But you don't even care to quote scriptures. Maybe that is an indication that you don't care about other peoples feelings?
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Your questions are of a personal nature. If you are worried about going to hell for eternity, for real, then my answers to your questions are irrelevant. I'm here for discussion, not for therapy.

    Why do you think you go to hell for being an atheist?

    Jan.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Here is a blog about the subject of who goes to hell.
    I think it may be a good discussion starter (if you like).

    If anything I am closer to your position, than one of spotless perfection. So maybe we can discover answers together.

    Jan.
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, I forgot to send the link.
    Here...
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    But if you know something I don't know that can help me in my seeking of God, would you not help me?

    :EDIT:

    Didn't see other posts... so like whatever...
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    So? Do you want to discuss, or not?

    Jan.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Do you always put the onus on someone else?

    "Hey guys I have the cure for cancer, would you like to discuss it?"
     
  12. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Love your neighbor, love your enemy. Love is a pleasure, if love were omnipresent in you you would be nirvanic. God has to care for all things without violence what so ever, but peace of mind can make all of hell suffer, and has power over the nihilistic nature as it naughts itself. So when I say love thy enemy, you have to recognize compassion can do something a weapon never could, but taken with a grain of salt they are the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Nice words but they seem to be out of touch with the reality that we live in a world where millions of inoccents suffer and die whilst this God does nothing.

    If you were that God would you do nothing?

    Think of the inoccent victims who could benefit from merciful action from a supposed all powerful God.

    But if we love our enemy all will be fine?
    Tell that to the poor young rape victim before their life is taken by a cruel human...

    Why cant God do one single thing for the inoccent victims?

    And perhaps find the parents of some poor young dead victim and explain how God reaaly loves them.

    Alex
     
  14. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Just as I thought. You don't really want to discuss.

    jan.
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Alex, while I know you don't believe it, do you comprehend the concept of a living being comprising of a body (vehicle), and a soul (operator)?

    Alex.
     
  16. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    If I were God? I would rather be Faith, God is Love. I wouldn't do nothing good or nothing bad. I let non-violence, and non-suffering complete the nihilistic family tree with impassive, and dis-belief and they go to their own Destruction with their father Hate by the power of the air.

    What about the victims. I will utterly free them in paradise. Happiness is plain better to you than vengeance or regret. Justice doesn't need nihilism. The dead victim? The devil stalks as a bloody lion.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Why did you sign off as me?

    I am aware of the concept of a soul but given there is nothing to support the concept I think it is not something to take seriously.

    It is my view that the soul is made up and does not exist in reality.

    I may use the word perhaps ..like ...he is a restless soul..but if I choose my words carefully I should say...the guy is unhappy and never content....

    My body exists and will do so until I die, which at that point will degrade and be recycled.

    Alex
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well so far you seem right for the job the prime requisite being to do nothing and let everyone be cruel and kill and not do aything for the inoccent victims.

    Me if I had the power I would not let anything or anyone suffer at the level you seem happy to accept.

    I am jus a man but it seems with more compassion than any made up God.

    Would you not spare a rape and murder victim the horror of the horrible ordeal?
    Do you ever question why so many die in wars?

    Are victims just faceless statistics who you need not care about?

    Do you think its like playing a prank on someone...when they see it was a cruel joke all is ok. Sure you were raped and killed ..get over it..sure ...get over it????

    Its wrong but what is more wrong is to defend it as being in anyway whatsoever as acceptable...it will never be acceptable and if there really was a God it would never be the way you are saying is ok...never ever.
    And this God loves us...dont you see that as nonsense?
    Has the fuzzy feeling turned you brain to mush..really think it through.

    So you are ok with any suffering in this world on the basis you would make it up to them in the next world.

    That is so cruel and sadistic cant you see that?

    Thats not good enough for me and you should wonder why you must hold onto such an excuse as reasonable..it is not reasonable in the slightest.

    So as God you would feel somewhat justified allowing the suffering the cruelty and the killing of inoccent people by letting them enjoy paradise...how noble...but sadistic and cruel...and not in keeping with a God who loves humans.

    So we have a victim who may experience a life time of cruelty and abuse who is expected to take it and somehow get over it when you admit them to paradise.

    That is a terrible way to think.

    Well make me God and that victim will never suffer.

    What part of my approach is unreasonable.

    Why the need to have anyone suffer if even only for an instant....suffering is unnecessary if there is a God...God can do anything so why the absence of mercy and simple decency?

    Well the reason is you must explain away the cruelty and inequity that a non existent God allows, you see if there was a God you would not need to make up crappy excuses or make promises about a better deal in some fantasized paradise.

    What is not right is to say there is a God who cares when the evidence points overwhelmingly with no fear of contradiction, that the notion is clearly not what we observe.

    Its a pity but how else can you look at the facts before all of us.

    What really gets to me is why you can not hold wonderful principles for living and interaction with others without requiring the notion that you need a non exsistent God for you to be decent.

    Why are you unable to recognise what is decent without referrencing a non existent God?

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  19. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Faith is down here with us suffering. Jesus by nature must be passive, I mean why not right?
     
  20. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    My highlight from the extract from your post

    From where do YOU obtain the definitive MUST?

    What other options have been dismissed to arrive at MUST?

    Seems no wriggle room allowed for god or jc. And we are taking about god - someone who created the Universe - and his offspring - and you are using MUST?

    Again can you list other dismissed options and explain why those other options CANNOT be a jc option?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    So God has the power to send down his Son and let him be crucified, why one should ask? Why the need to indulge such cruelty to your one and only Son?...who presumably as in the form of a human would feel as a human would...Do you have any idea the pain of a crucifixion. ..do you?
    And God needed to do this because?
    Dont you get the feeling something is horribly wrong with the story?

    Where is your ability to think and reason?

    I follow certain teachings you would attribute to Jesus about respect for others and loving others..that is good...but one must ask why does God not love others such that he has mercy and shows compassion for inoccent victims?

    Cant you see the idiotic hypocracy dripping from the nonsense we call religion.

    And why is it not right...because it is all made up...invented by folk who two thousand years ago had no idea...it is now 2018 and you wish to rely upon made up stuff that was not right then and is not right now.

    Those ancients could be excused for sheer ignorance yet here we are in 2018 and you still think they has an idea?

    Believe what you want, deny what you must but please take an hour to think it through...make a list of what does not make sense..
    Have a big note book ready and a few spare pens...then try to be honest with yourself.
    Faith is an opinion and an opinion can be wrong...are you absolutely sure you are not just a little bit wrong.

    I was religious once..just rattled off what had been programed into me but one day I stopped and thought if God loves humans and with his power why not do ot better...well the reason its not bettet is because he does not exist...does that make any sense to you?
    Alex
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I think I meant to start another sentence, but got sidetracked, the pressed enter.

    I appreciate that, but decide the fact that you cannot know that there is nothing to support the concept, what you or I believe is not really on the table here.

    And here we go. Everything stops because you don't believe the soul exists.
    I bet you didn't have to do anything to believe that the soul doesn't exist, outside of the proclamation of not seeing one with your eyes.

    By ''choosing my words carefully'', do you mean choosing words that conform to your belief? Hardly reasonable.

    Yes. That is what will happen when you body dies.
    Note that you claimed ownership of your body, which kind of means you are separate from your body. Spiritually, that's what death is. The death of the mortal body. But the ''I'' does not die.

    I know you can't believe that, and I'm not asking you to. But if you can comprehend the concept, it will give you a little understanding of theism.

    jan.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Clear the table and lay out the facts Jan.

    I make my assessment on the basis of the facts before me and so I have a reasonable claim to believe there is no soul.

    If you wish to believe there is a soul then is it not reasonable to ask upon what facts do you rely upon otherwise your belief can not extend beyond a fantasy.

    Either of us could be wrong but without facts what need do you satisfy if you simply make something up.

    Making something up does not make it real ... but it takes so much away from who we could be.

    What do you mean?

    Perhaps you mean...just because you have no evidence you are not going to believe any made up stories...yep here we go.

    Nothing has to stop Jan but lets no travel too far without something that in even some small way lends validity to the reality that you claim that there is a soul.

    Perhaps seeing you like the idea you could define what you call the soul and a reason that causes me to accept there could be a soul.

    As you well know Jan I am very open minded and will hear you out if you care to present a reasonable proposition.

    The fact the notion comes from religion certainly destroys my ability to say..yes this seems reasonable..and see it? Can you see a soul?

    My understanding so far is you cant see the soul and that would support non existence I expect.

    But as I said explain or define the soul and why I could accept the notion.

    There is a soul because.....

    Well er yes...

    Why would I choose words that somehow do not fit my belief.

    Do you choose words that don't fit your belief if so why would you?

    Entirely reasonable Jan and most importantly an honest approach.

    What in the circumstances would you consider reasonable Jan using words that dont fit my or your belief?

    Kind of does not.

    Your logic leaps from no facts to a solid conclusion faster than a heart beat and you wonder why you suffer in arguement.

    Nevertheless I do wonder where "I" is sometimes...its a thought somewhere in my brain. But even wondering where that function takes place offers no conclusion that there is a soul.

    Others may explain what is going on but to call it a soul is an un necessary and unwarrented leap.

    You may as well say ..oh I am thinking ...that is my soul...who else could it be? No Jan.

    No you have just made up the soul nothing more.

    If you are confident that is the way of it jump out in front of a bus and get back to me...we can go to your funeral together.

    I think I understand Jan.

    That only means I can think about things without accepting any notion that arrives with that understanding.

    You are afraid of dieing I suspect and you need a reason as to why you are here.

    It seems unacceptable that one day it all ends and anything, even sheer nonsense, is acceptable if it offers you hope and purpose.

    I get it.

    I choose to live outside of such delusion.

    I exist in my own personal eternity for I dont know when I got here and I wont know when I leave.

    My consciousness has no personal limit and I dont fear death...mind you I keep out of the way of buses.

    As to purpose let me share mine although it is somewhat contrived.

    I like to believe I help others close to me simply by showing strength of character in adverse situations and humility in moments of success.

    I am there for others and that makes me feel good...there is no sense behind that but that is how I manage the realisation that I have one life, that it is not a rehearsal and I better make the most of it and do my best.
    I do the right thing because I want to respect myself and never feel guilty that I have been less than decent.

    Clearly I see folk who need a God as weak and although I dont feel superior to them I do wish they could enjoy my strength of character and avoidance of escapism.


    Alex
     

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