Does God care about atheists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,780
    Free will is a bitch, basically. If He forced us to act like we should... What would be the point? We'd be little more than happy little robot slaves.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,780
    Perhaps - I guess we'll just have to wait until we reach what, if anything, awaits us on the other side.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,309
    Thank you.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,779
    Frankly, I think the opposite. It's just awesome that nature has caused us come into being without a hand-up.
    It means we are the meaning. It would be terrible if we didn't preserve ourselves as witnesses to this wonderous thing.

    * by 'we', I mean all life, including any exo-life.

    I'm wandering in the wilderness and I come across two rocks, one balanced perfectly on the other. Which would I find more cool? Nature doing this with naught but physics? Or some guy before me, who balanced them on a whim?
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,079
    I actually think this is an interesting subject. I don't come to the same conclusions that you do but it's always an interesting subject. To me, however, it just shows that we humans aren't as innately gifted in probability as we are in pattern recognition.

    From my point of view there is no such thing as "more" than pure chance. It is what it is.

    The interesting aspect of this subject, for me, is in how to access probability and chance.

    It usually boils down to people being much more aware of the times when something "rare" happened and not being as aware of how many times it didn't happen. When you look at it that way you see that it wasn't unusual at all that it happened that one "rare" time.

    It seems like more than pure chance to the person that wins the lottery but in the bigger scheme of things someone had to win. There are many other factors that reduce the odds of things that we think have overwhelming odd having to do with the way our brains work.

    The instances that we think are rare when they happen to us are actually common...being in another country and running into someone you know, thinking of someone and then the phone rings and it's them, thinking of a loved one and then you find that they just died, surviving a crazy accident.

    The law of very large numbers basically says that seemingly rare things occur all the time.

    There is also the fact that people just do not understand probability math very well. People play the slot machines in Vegas for a while, they haven't won yet, they need to go to the bathroom but they are upset when someone is at "their" machine when they get back because they think that that machine was about "due" to be a winner when in fact each pull of the handle (as it is with rolls of the dice) is an independent event.

    People get a reputation on Wall Street for making an accurate prediction but of course it's not usually the same person. Someone will always make a correct prediction in a crowd. You just can't say who that will be until the prediction becomes true and then the next correct prediction will usually be from someone else...so there is actually no predictive powers being displayed here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  9. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,309
    And it all came together right up to the moment you stumble upon it. How cool is that?
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    goes to prove even atheists can have religious type views or beliefs.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,779
    What's religious about it?

    Do you mean goes to show that even atheists can have a sense of wonder about the universe? Of course.
     
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,602
    I think, even though I generalise, atheists probably wonder more about the Universe than religious folk who are apparently content with the one answer to all and any observation...God did it.
    I lived next door to a JW and one day we went fishing and I asked him...what caused you to believe in God (I knew him before he got sucked in)...
    He replied " One day I was looking at a tree and it hit me who other than God could make something so wonderful "
    I did not bite nor did any fish.
    Alex
     
    DaveC426913 likes this.
  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,309
    I think the appreciation is the same for both atheist and religious.
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,602
    I certainly hope so I would not like to believe all religious folk were all much like him...but sadly I must say I have not been impressed with any who openly professed belief.
    What I really wonder about and I feel I can talk with you and get a reasonable reply and indeed Kit...

    One seems to gain belief from reading the bible or scriptures.
    It is where the concept of God is written.
    And yet the flaws one can find are simply overlooked by a believer.
    If someone lies to me I don't trust another word or proposition they present..Why can someone form the belief and retain it after reasonable thought would have them dismiss everything for the myth I am sure the whole religious trip is.
    It seems to me folk get some warm fuzzy feeling and then look for more than the one life they have.
    From there they reason there must be more so armed with no evidence at all they abdicate rational thinking in favour of unsupportable fantasy.

    And this God loves us I find impossible to support.
    I read about war... The numbers of dead...and in days past certainly in "city state" wars , and others the winning side kills everyone, men thru to the chooks (chickens).
    If I was God I would not have creatures who could war.
    And of course the answer so simple, God works in mysterious ways which really is strange since the scriptures and bible and all accumulated thought gained from ages of worship has been able to outline everything else in great detail.
    For me it does not add up.
    Alex
     
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,079
    It's not a rational thing. It's generally a cultural thing. It's not thought about a lot. It's not unlike being patriotic or "proud to be an American". It's OK to be a decent citizen and feel that the U.S. has done a "decent" job of being a country

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    but it helps not to think about all the wars, treatment of blacks, Indians, Asians in the U.S. during WWII, etc.

    You could ask, what's there to be proud of there? Yet, rational people can easily just ignore the bad, on a day to day basis, and get on with life.

    People who grow up going to church, live in a small, friendly town where most people go to church and help each other, it's just what is in their culture. They listen to sermons that generally are positive, the kids go to Sunday School and learn positive lessons. The rest is ignored and many religious people aren't really reading or studying the Bible.

    It's just like any other aspect of cultural tradition, just like marriage, being a "hard worker", being patriotic, observing traditional holidays, etc.
     
    exchemist and Xelasnave.1947 like this.
  16. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,935
    This has nothing to do with our free will. We still have free will. This has to do with God's plan for us. He sent his son to die as a scapegoat for our ancestors sin of eating some forbidden fruit. The least thing a caring god could do is make sure we get the real story without embellishments.
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,226
    This is a very good point, about religious observance in practice, that often seems to be overlooked.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,564
    None of that distinguishes between atheists and believers. Why does "accepting and receiving the gift of Grace" have any relevance?
     
  19. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,780
    How would you recommend He do that? Send prophets to tell us? Or maybe come again and lay the truth bare?

    Would anyone believe in whomever professed to be God? If a man or woman were to arrive tomorrow and, with a touch, begin curing folks of cancer, restoring sight to the blind, or call a plague of locusts against His enemies... What do you think the reaction of the general public would be? I'd wager on absolute chaos...
     
  20. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,780
    Oh - sorry, I think I misunderstood your first question there. The idea if accepting Grace, as I understand it at least, merely means accepting that we (humans) are imperfect and that God had to take mighty steps to "balance the scale" of judgement, as it were. Ergo, that He loves us even in our disobedience.

    The only difference between the two would be one says that all of that is impossible or otherwise untrue, and so shuns it.
     
  21. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,309
    I can't offer any insight into the Bible since I don't understand it. I've picked it up many times and tend to cherry pick what I like and disregard what I don't like.

    I think that searching for your spiritual self is a worthy cause. If finding it gives your life meaning, then how much better is your life?
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,602
    I see how that works.
    For me as I said before if they lie I lose confidence and respect and never trust them again not an inch.
    I have read the bible cover to cover and was absolutely disappointed to find it lacking credibility.
    All I could say to myself each time I put it down was..how can anyone hold that up as the pillar of their belief.
    Consider this...how much better to take responsibility for ones action and dispel wishy washy mush from your thoughts and be all you can be without indulging any delusion that "spiritual" is anything more than confusion of thought and an unnecessary attempt to escape reality.
    Alex
     
  23. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,309
    Again, I'm not certain how it should be viewed. I need to give it another read. There might be something there I missed.

    There's nothing wrong with taking responsibility for your actions. In fact, much of religion insists that you do take responsibility for your life, and work towards being a better individual.

    If spirituality gives you a better appreciation for life, what could possibly be wrong with it?
     

Share This Page