Do you talk to GOD?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by sculptor, Oct 6, 2021.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,526
    Hitchens feels compelled to point out that we are made of "stardust" or its equivalence in "nuclear waste".
    All other explanations are a form of "wishful thinking".
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    I've tried, but I still don't get this.
    What other explanations, and of what?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,526
    Well there is a popular story that god created Adam (and Eve), "in his image" in "1 day", which would seem to preclude evolution.
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14746700.2013.750958

    I happen to think that theism in any form is nothing but "wishful thinking".

    Especially if an attempt is made to take Scripture (the word of god) and then trying to make it all as metaphor, IOW Scripture is not divinely revealed truth but mythology just like all mythology through the ages, that make such excellent movies, especially now that we can digitally create every fantastical scene imaginable.

    In fact there are now as many virtual realities as we can digitize. Creation has become an artform and we keep paying entrance fees (tithing) to the grand spectacle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,939
    arfa brane:

    Not especially. It's the obvious question to ask you. You speak as if you think you have a good idea about who or what God is, and I merely noticed that. It wasn't hard. I thought that, perhaps, you might be able to back up your bravado with an actual attempt at an explanation, but apparently either you couldn't, or you weren't interested. (Although, if it's the latter, I have to wonder why you bothered posting in this thread in the first place.)

    Do you want to try to answer now? I would have thought that this would be a basic kind of question that a believer such as yourself could answer: what is your understanding of the nature of the God you believe in?

    Clearly, something convinced you that God is real and has certain characteristics. So what convinced you? Let me know if such questions are too hard for you.
    For the sake of argument, let us assume that you're correct that I don't know who or what God is, for now. So, fill me in! I'm all ears.
    Whenever somebody says "probably" they aren't claiming 100% confidence. I agree with you that, as far as I can tell, it is far more likely than not that God is mythical. I could explain exactly why that is my assessment. This may strike you as brilliance, but it's really not. It's ultimately the same kind of reasoning process as the one that led to my more prosaic belief that it will probably rain tomorrow.

    How's your confidence level that your God is real? On a scale of 0 confidence to 100%, where would you put your belief?
    Aw, shucks. I ought to tell you that my smarts have been independently assessed on a number of occasions, if it matters to you.
    I wouldn't necessarily go that far. How could I be sure? How about you? Where's your confidence level about your own level of delusion at? 100% confidence that you're not at all deluded about anything at all?
    Nah, you really didn't.
    Well, I don't know about you, but pre-Covid lockdowns, I used to regularly get people knocking on my door wanting to tell me the Good News about their versions of God, unsolicited. These days, they tend to drop pamphlets in the letter box. They sure give the impression that they want other people to know about their beliefs and their Gods. I understand that you might be different, but again the question arises as to why you decided to join this conversation, if you're really as uninterested in spreading the word as you claim.
    'fess up. You've had the door knockers and pamphleteers knocking at your door, too, haven' t you?
    Why all the hypotheticals? Can't we just talk about what you believe and why?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  8. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    Unpacking this:
    Why is it the obvious question? Why did you notice that I think I have a good idea about who or what God is? What tipped you off; what did I say?
    Why wasn't it hard?
    But James, I'm actually pretty confident you do know; and not only do you know, you also know the people who come knocking on your door to tell you all about it, haven't quite got the idea. You know they're wrong about something, something you don't have the time or patience to explain.

    Maybe . . .
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,099
    For, to me, you are wriggling more than a worm on a fishing hook

    My interest has vanished

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    Was it like exhaling?

    BTW, what were you expecting? Are you still expecting it? What does it look like, this thing you're expecting; and don't tell me you expect nothing, because we both know that would be a lie.
     
  11. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    I seem to be able to evince certain "standard" responses, just by mentioning certain things. I haven't actually unequivocally said anything like "I know who or what God is", but more than one poster here seems to have jumped to that conclusion and expected me to explain myself.

    A most curious circumstance, indeed. I ask, "why?", but who am I asking? As in "what do these people think I can tell them?"
    Could I talk about certain . . . experiences, important to me for some reason, because I can still remember them, and after all, who am I if not what I remember doing during my life. As well as my freedom to choose to do some things over again; you know, similar to drawing in a breath, then letting it go. I could hold a breath instead--oh the power!
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,939
    arfa brane:

    You're still avoiding my questions rather than trying to answer them. Why is that?
    Sorry. I thought it would be clear to you. Let me walk you through it one more time, but more slowly.

    You wrote:
    "I'm fascinated, I have to say, with what people have to say about God. Lots of people say God has to be a hallucination, or some imaginary being; God doesn't exist because, they tell you with firm conviction, they've seen no evidence of God. But I think to myself, no, such opinions are those of people who just don't know what or who God is, and this appears to be, to me at least, because they don't know what or who they themselves "really are".
    And then I wrote:
    "Please tell us what or who God is. It sounds like you think you know."
    Why did I ask that question, in response to what you wrote? Here are the reasons:

    1. You claim you are fascinated with what people have to say about God. I assumed you would have given some thought to what you would have to say about God, so that you could at least make a meaningful comparison or assessment, given your fascination.
    2. You say that you think people who claim God doesn't exist - and tell you so with firm conviction - don't know what or who God is. I reason that you would be unable to make that comment unless you are of the opinion that you do know what or who God is. Because, again, you would need a point of reference to make that kind of judgment about other people.

    Now, I admit it is possible that you were just blathering groundless assertions. If so, please let me know, so I can move on and talk to somebody who has some actual knowledge about the subject matter.

    This kind of reasoning isn't hard, like I said. It's just basic comprehension and critical thinking. You write something. I assume, at least initially, that you are posting in good faith, expressing honest opinions etc. etc. So, I parse your sentences, extract the meaning, and ask pertinent questions. Understand?
    You're pretty confident about what I know ... maybe?

    Look, here's a suggestion: why don't you just tell me what you know about your God? Remember how I asked you:

    "I would have thought that this would be a basic kind of question that a believer such as yourself could answer: what is your understanding of the nature of the God you believe in?

    Clearly, something convinced you that God is real and has certain characteristics. So what convinced you? Let me know if such questions are too hard for you."
    Stop worrying about what I do or don't know. Tell me what you know. Or not. Either way, stop waffling around, saying nothing of substance. And, again, tell me if my questions are too hard for you, or if you'd simply prefer to keep your knowledge of God to yourself because its private or secret or you just can't be bothered sharing, or something.
    So you don't know who or what God is?

    Make up your mind, man! Take a position one way or the other.

    Or is this a case of Rumsfeldian unknown knowns and unknown unknowns: you don't know what you know, and/or you don't know what you don't know?

    This person thought that, like a normal person, you'd be able to share whatever knowledge it is that you have. You know, communicate. On a discussion forum. Was I wrong to think that about you?
    Could you? Or not? If not, what are you doing here?
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,099
    Pulling your chain it seems

    I (you cannot) put him on ignore

    Seems like the ½ part of brain which is missing is/was the sensible part

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    Do I? Really?

    What I said was I think people who say they don't think God exists, don't know who or what they "really are", right? How does that imply "I have a good idea about who or what God is? ?? Why doesn't it imply I have a good idea what or who God isn't?

    Like say, God isn't an opinion, God isn't an idea although the word does seem to give people all kinds of ideas. God seems to be something nobody can really define. and here you are, demanding I do just that.

    So what do I know about "my" God? Let's see; I know that it's something a lot of people want to know about; I also know these people already know enough about it that they, like you, feel they can say something definitive.

    The joke's on them; this isn't really something anyone can do. However, ideas are things that we need to try to make sense of things, so, y'know . . .
     
  15. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    And just as clearly, something convinced you that's what I think. But I don't think I've made that clear at all.

    God is a word, a word is not what we're trying to talk about here. What we're trying to talk about here might be "beyond God".

    Or something.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,939
    arfa brane:

    I explained, just above, in detail, in that entire post that you just skipped over. If you're not willing to engage in a honest two-way conversation, there's little point in my continuing to humour you.
    You're saying that God is whatever you need it to be from minute to minute. That's incredibly vague and unhelpful. There's no way to have a clue what you're talking about when you use the word "God". If you're for real.
    I wanted to know about your God, so I asked you about it. But, apparently, you're unable to say anything definite about it. If you're for real, and not just trolling, then you need to realise that you're not actually thinking about anything substantial when you think about "God". If your God had any consistent properties at all, you'd be able to say something about what they are.
    I'm no longer interested. You seem completely unable to articulate whatever it is you're trying to say. The resulting mish-mash concept you have is actually, literally, meaningless.
     
  17. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,509
    Thru Prayer, sometimes I "feel" God answered me.
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,099
    I've grown partial to The Flying Spaghetti Monster

    I think it has many of the aspects of religion and would make a good change from the full cookie cutter religions currently circulating

    I on occasion do talk to The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Well his representation in the form of his presence in a can. When I find the shelf in the supermarket where he has been placed I have been known to say "There you are"

    Of course like the thousands of other religions I do not entertain any ideas The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a sentient entity who created the Universe

    I do like the concept The Flying Spaghetti Monster religion has of heaven and hell, which has both being much the same with a neat twist

    Both have beer volcanoes and both have voluptuous vixens for the men and hunks for the women, tailored to the individuals preferences

    The volcanoes in heaven put out beer (or your choice of fluid) and your choice of partner to fullfill your fantasies

    Drinks in heaven come fresh, in hell stale. Partners in heaven are pure and engage your fantasies. Same in hell, however the vixens and hunks have incurable STDs

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,264
     
  20. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    How about, I'm saying what God isn't, as needed?
    What you mean there, is I'm not providing you with a coherent, understandable idea about God; instead I just say "God is not an idea".
    Yep, that's vague and unhelpful for someone who is expecting . . . something else. Sure.

    Also, there isn't any rule about you having to believe a word of all this, which applies to me too.
    But you seem to want me to say something you can believe or disbelieve. I'm not going to do that, sorry.
    Maybe you'll just have to find something believable (or not) all by yourself.
     
  21. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    Bullshit, James.
     
  22. foghorn Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    960
    '' instead I just say "God is not an idea'' .
    No, that's not true, you also said: '' I think to myself'':

    That implies you think ''God'' is a ''what'' or a ''who'', which exists.
    It also implies you know who you ''really are'' in order to understand that ''God'' is a ''what'' or ''who'' which exists.
    Or, I may altogether misunderstand you, and you're saying, people who know themselves, know there is no ''God'' thingy. ??
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  23. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,634
    Perhaps it might be helpful to include me in the set of "those people who don't know what or who God is"; and who "don't know what or who they themselves really are".

    Which isn't to say I haven't met people who seem to know about that second thing.
     

Share This Page