Do you support Mr. Kavanaugh or Dr. Ford?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Sep 21, 2018.

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Should Brett Kavanaugh be confirmed by the Senate?

Poll closed Sep 21, 2019.
  1. Yes, and I'm a Democrat

    4.5%
  2. No, and I'm a Democrat

    18.2%
  3. Yes, and I'm a Republican

    9.1%
  4. No, and I'm a Republican

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Yes, and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. No, and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican

    54.5%
  7. I don't want to respond to the poll. Just show me the results.

    13.6%
  1. Xelor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    208
    More American voters now oppose Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court nomination than support it. Where do you stand?

    Another question I would ask is this:
    Insofar as the Dept. of Justice defines "sexual assault" as "any nonconsensual sexual act proscribed by Federal, tribal, or State law, including when the victim lacks capacity to consent," which of the statements below do you believe is more likely to be true?
    1. Brett Kavanaugh, when he was a student at Prep, sexually assaulted Chrissy Blasey.
    2. Brett Kavanaugh, when he was a student at Prep, did not sexually assault Chrissy Blasey.

     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,588
    Have you the text of the complaint?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  5. Xelor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    208
    Um....What I have or lack has no bearing on which of the two statements you believe is more likely to be true.
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,704
    I thought Obama should have picked a justice as I think it was his right anyway. Trump, by default, picks the crappiest people.
     
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  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,588
    Oh your in the group which maintains "You don't need to know what she has complained about

    I put sexually assaulted so go with that"

    Sorry no can do

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,779
    But it has a bearing on whether or not anyone should give a monkey's about your opinion on the matter.

    This needs to go through a police investigation and to trial if appropriate. A kangaroo court of biased and grandstanding politicians is about the worst way to see justice done.
     
  10. Xelor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    208
    Red:
    Seriously? Do you truly not know what Dr. Ford has stated Brett Kavanaugh did to her?

    If you tell me you just arrived from another planet (or moon) and there and on the way to Earth you received no television, Internet or other communications from the USA and just happened to sit down at a computer and the very first thing upon which you stumbled is this thread and my poll and OP questions, I'll be happy to share with you a host of links to content that will inform you of what be Dr. Ford's claim.
     
  11. Xelor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    208
    Well, that -- investigation by a law enforcement organization -- is what Dr. Ford and others have requested, and exactly that is what two branches of the federal government have demurred from concurring needs to happen and making happen.
     
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,588
    Well let's put it this way

    I have numerous reports from numerous people giving numerous details which vary in numerous ways

    What I requested was the text of the complaint

    Not the Chinese whisper versions

    Please do you have the text of the complaint?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    PS - Moon
     
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  13. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,215
    Where is the "insufficient data" option?
     
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  14. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    605
    He is being dishonest I think, and Trump is the one supporting him. Definitely no.
     
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    I don't care who the Republican nominee is, they shouldn't be allowed a seat because they took Obama's pick.
     
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,194
    damn fricking straight
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,390
    Talk to Republicans.

    It's actually the same sort of theme: At some point, I need Judge Kavanaugh and his political allies to stop behaving precisely like the guilty.

    Consider that the behavior described at the boys' school was not unusual; the problem with rape culture becomes pretty straightforward when the good students with letter jackets are also the sex offenders, because between our American cult of masculinity and propensity for disbelieving women in general, and observant of the justification for sticking oneself into a woman as, "Any excuse will do", nobody really stopped to think about it at the time when parents would point to the clean-cut, all-American football and basketball players with strong gradepoints and ask their sons why they can't be more like that. Just like nobody really stopped to think about the implications of lazy responses to school bullying, telling victims it was their fault and they need to try harder to fit in.

    That whole thing with men looking over their shoulders in the #MeToo period when #TimesUp isn't just about the idea that this or that was viewed as somehow acceptable; it was also common and known behavior among the ostensibly admirable. Something I've noticed in the twenty-first century is men of my generation and older putting on weird, puritanistic pretenses about our youth. To the one, it really is creepy the way my daughter's maternal grandfather reminds that he knows how young men are because he was young, once, but I would find it hard to believe this sentiment is somehow obscure. To the other, it does make me wonder when I passed through a weird Venn threshold among my age cohort because, while social circles do change over the years, I'm wondering where these legions of boys were, back in the day, who never ever thought or talked about having sex with girls until one day they fell in love and ... what, were surprised to learn of the pleasures about this thing called intimacy?

    Seriously, though, watch men older than about thirty pretend they don't know what rape culture is. It's amazing what they'll say.

    When I was thirty, every man I knew recognized lines from Revenge of the Nerds. These years later, I know some who recognize, "Hair pie? Hair pie?" and, "I thought it was my mother's old douchebag, but that's back in Ohio", and the scraping, inhaling nerd laugh, but pretend to not remember the movie itself. The difference isn't our fading memories, but our unnerved psyches; while T&A comedies of the Eighties were both exemplary and symptomatic of rape culture, Revenge of the Nerds is one of the explicit fulfillments portraying rape as an act of merit. But male privilege and sexual harassment were not simply common themes, but standard filler. Stripes is a classic, and has what history will view as an enlightening romantic encounter, as well as a mud-wrestling scene. And there is, of course, Porky's. It's one thing if few remember Hamburger: The Motion Picture, but I'll doubt my American-raised cohort if they don't remember Police Academy, but, to be fair, that one includes a gay rape joke. Actually, multiple gay rape jokes, or that might be over the course of the series, but either way. It's true, though, I give a pass to the bull joke in Top Secret.

    Molly Ringwald, earlier this year, reflected on chauvinism and misogyny about the brat pack films, and one point here about Hughes films in the '80s is to pay attention to high school parties throughout. Because even before Reitman's Stripes, there was Landis' Animal House in '78. And yeah, it's one thing to say we get it, but that would be entirely different than pretending the period didn't exist. And if I recall being twenty-six, I just don't recall my age peers scratching their heads at where American Pie came from.

    The difference 'twixt then and now has something to do with rape culture, changing perspectives, and how it feels to chuckle and boast among friends, to the one, or feel badly because nobody thinks it's funny or cool anymore. And right now, there is to the accuser's side the nearly dualistic question of truth or crazy, by which she is either correct or has utterly lost her mind according to the principle that nobody would do this for a lark; Judge Kavanaugh has, to his side, the weight of traditional presupposition, and behavior of the guilty.

    It's not simply a matter of rushing to convict; there can be no conviction without particular proof, and that's not the point. In the court of public opinion, the boys' club is under siege, and failing to remember something that would have been far more important to someone else than it would be to one's own drunk ass perfectly and precisely fails to demand innocence. In the question of a Supreme Court justice, this is just one more thing on top of Kavanaugh's record of apparent perjury, and we have yet to get through the differing stories about his finances.

    All considered, it is easy enough to accept that someone of Kavanaugh's time and station could behave in a manner we now recognize as sexual assault. This will not be the occasion for scrutinizing the differences of changing standards and watching a man parse that he might have crossed the line of "sexual assault", but, well, he never penetrated her, even digitally, and then trying to make his apologies and ritual amends; there is no statute of limitations on the alleged crime in its jurisdiction, so it's really, really hard at this point for Kavanaugh to take a confessing, mitigating line. Well, that and his denial even as political defenders attempt to excuse the behavior.

    A really strange thing about crisis management is how much of it presumes the client guilty. Like I said, at some point I need this sex offenders' cavalcade to stop behaving like gaslights.
     
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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,505
    Eventually, after the nomination vetting has concluded.
    That investigation and so forth is currently being blocked by Republican politicians, of course - and may continue to be, if Kavanaugh is confirmed.
    Meanwhile, it's not "justice", but rather Senatorial assessment of Kavanaugh's fitness for the Supreme Court - as both a flawed human being and a Trump nominee - currently at issue.

    And the plain fact that this random woman from Kavanaugh's past is obviously more credible than he is, and most people from Kavanaugh's past would also be more credible than he is - about anything - should carry a lot of weight in that assessment. We don't have to decide the case to know that. Maybe Kavanaugh is - against all odds - telling the whole truth here. But that would be against all odds, simply on the basis of his ratio of whole truth telling/whole truth telling opportunity.

    This guy's WT/WTO ratio is way too close to zero for him to expect much benefit from doubt.

    And there's nothing unfair or unjust about that - there is and should be a price for, say, signing on with an something like Ken Starr's slander and disinformation and character assassination campaign. And part of that price is a loss of personal credibility. The worst you can say about these assault accusations is that even if completely false they would be no more than chickens coming home to roost, and that is enough to forestall anyone familiar with Kavanaugh's career from actually supporting the guy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,390
    If we imagine the dumbest conspiracy theory in the world, and that as the cabal somehow, after decades, countenances fulfillment, they somehow manage to lose everything, that is approximately how Republicans are failing to not behave tonight.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,779
    Understood. Tell me, if Kavanaugh were to be appointed to the Supreme Court and were subsequently to stand trial for and be convicted of attempted rape or sexual assault, would he forfeit his seat on the Court? I presume he would - hard to be an effective judge behind bars - but is that in fact the case?
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    If Kavanaugh committed a crime he would not automatically forfeit his position. Supreme court justices are appointed for life. Only death, resignation, or an act of Congress can remove a sitting justice from the court. And with a compliant Republican Congress, aside from departing from the Republican party line, there is nothing Kavanaugh could do which would cause Congress to remove him from the court. Just as Trump could walk out onto 5th Avenue and shoot people without suffering any political blowback from his base, Kavanaugh could do the same.
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,232
    why was obamas pick rejected by the republicans ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination
    note "in a timely manner"

    The biden rule could be considered equal to the release of the elected presidents tax returns.
    not actual laws but expected protocol.

    throwing all the protocol out the window may be considered ok in the law, however i wonder if the "in a timely manner" is an actual law that has relative reference.

    it will be interesting to see if that the "in a timely manner" excludes the nomination by default to require a new nomination process after sufficient legal obligation for due process has been defined.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Well, here is the thing Rainbow, there is no Biden Rule. The "Biden Rule" is complete unmitigated bullshit invented by a dishonest Republican politician in an attempt to rationalize the unjustifiable.
     

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