Do you believe?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by SetiAlpha6, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    Evolution by natural selection is the process by which life is where it is today. Why complicate things by adding a 'creator' who apparently doesn't exist since life seems to create itself without the need for a creator. Religious folk cite consciousness as proof of god, whereas I will cite shit and parasites as proof for a godless universe.

    If I was god, I would create life that didn't have to do a shit.
     
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  3. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Or their moral reasoning is simply on the Pre-Conventional level.

    Edit - adding to the above:

    - so we cannot simply suspect them of hypocrisy. Would you say children are hypocrites? Children tend to have the obedience and punishment orientation and the self-interest orientation. Many people even as adults don't develop past that stage of moral reasoning, or remain in this stage of moral reasoning only when it comes to particular issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
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  5. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    A person who believes that they have been created by a supreme being ultimately will not and can not take responsibility for their own actions.

    If a person believes that they have been created by a supreme being, they will also necessarily believe that ultimately, everything they do or happens to them is up to this supreme being.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    There is never a need for God not to exist, but you have to ask yourself why a God would exist. Is it logical ? If you look around you it sure looks as if everything can be explained by nature, then why assume something extraordinary ?
    Ever heard the phrase "If it's not broken, don't fix it" ? Be creative

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  8. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Children are no hypocrites because they don't pretend to be selfless in doing good. Religious people must be selfless in acting to do good or else it is not really a virtue, right.. ? Or do you think God would buy into that ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  9. losfomoT Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    Science is not described as something that proves things. There will always be new things to learn and discover. You do not understand how life can exist without a creator of some kind... why? It is a mystery how the universe started... if the Big Bang happened, then what was before that? How did it start if there was nothing before? A simple answer is 'God made it all... life, the universe, and everything'. But then you have to be fair and ask 'where did God come from?' and you are still left with a mystery. So why introduce God in the first place? It doesn't really get you anywhere.

    It is not a 'need' for God not to exist. It is a need for the truth. Evidence says that God (at least the one we read about in the Bible) probably does not exist.
     
  10. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Some religious people are like children.

    Just because someone is an adult does not mean their reasoning is mature.
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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  12. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    How much have you given to those who dwell in shacks
    On the other side of the tracks,
    I mean the slobs
    Who won't work just because there are no jobs ?
    I find it obscene.
    I've been there and seen.
     
  13. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    You know Spidey...

    The more I think about this, the more I think this is really true.

    Perhaps at the heart of it all is just a basic frustration with and dislike of reality. People hate, or are afraid of, the real world and so they just choose to substitute and live in a mental fantasy world instead. It is almost like a kind of self-hypnosis. Only it is very difficult to bring someone out of. You cannot just snap your fingers. Why do people love to go to escapist movies? Why is Disneyland so popular? Same reason?

    I think that perhaps deep down many of them know it is fantasy but have learned to block reality at almost all cost. And that is tied to a need for happiness and joy in their life.

    This makes me wonder then if it really is possible for man to live completely in reality and still also live in happiness and joy?

    What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  14. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    Bertrand Russel said something like " most people would sooner die than think; and they do".
    It is much easier for people to accept authority than to think things through for themselves. So they accept the Bible, the Koran or some other holy book as expounded by someone else, " an expert".

    Science encourages thinking because that is how progress is made. But the kind of thinking required is not natural. Considr the following :

    If an Ancient Greek were asked why a stone falls he would say it was in its natiure to do so. The fact that this is no explanation would not be obvious to most people. Now consider all the "holy" books. They are "true" because they have divine authority in some sense or another. This makes "sense" to a lot of people so they accept it unquestioningly. The benefit of such ignorance is obvious. Bliss !

    So it all boils down to whether one is satisfied to allow others to provide ready -made answers or whether one chooses to think for onself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  15. Incriminating Convoy Registered Member

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    To give thought to the OP: Jesus stated what he said as guidelines for what we should live by. It wasn't meant to be followed perfectly and I believe that he understood this, that is why (in Christian belief) he died for our sins because he knew and understood that even though the guidelines he placed upon us would be followed, they wouldn't be followed perfectly and sin would happen.
     
  16. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I am not sure.

    These people probably thought that he was teaching His gospel and the way by which a person might be saved. Similarly, in another place He taught another man to follow the Law and then give away all of his possessions in order to be "saved". Is He trying to frustrate and mislead all of these people or what?

    “Judge not, and you shall not be judged."

    This is apparently about how not to be judged by God (salvation).

    "Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned."

    This is apparently about how not to be condemned by God (salvation).

    "Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

    This is apparently about how to be forgiven by God (salvation).

    "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

    And this is apparently about a reciprocal relationship that exists between man and God that is based on how much we give to others.

    All of these things are based on what we do and the kind of heart character we have, are they not? According to Jesus these things are the basis of our salvation.

    Matthew 5:20
    For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Again, was He lying to all of these people?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008

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