Do You Believe In Evolution?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by will_ebert, Jun 23, 2002.

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Who here believes in evolution?

  1. The Universe Was Created By God, No Less Than 10,000 Years Ago

    7 vote(s)
    4.8%
  2. Evolution Is True, But It Was Controlled By God. The Universe Is Billions Of Years Old

    35 vote(s)
    24.0%
  3. There Is No God. Evolution Is True. The Universe Is Billions Of Years Old

    104 vote(s)
    71.2%
  1. will_ebert Registered Member

    Messages:
    14
    Moderators, delete this poll

    I just realized some of the choices i posted do not make sense
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2002
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  3. scottmackey Registered Member

    Messages:
    2
    Evolution is definately true .. there's no way you can look at the facts and dispute it, so what you're basically asking is "What are your religious beliefs about evolution?"

    I personally feel that there is a God and he created the universe and 'man', and he created evolution but didn't/doesn't controll it.

    Those are just my thoughts.
     
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  5. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Boy have you opened a can of worms...

    If there is a saving feature to this topic it will be that it is not in the religion forums.

    Personally, I don't believe God exists except in our minds. If Gods exists then what happened the the literally thousands of gods and goddesses throughout history that we don't even know the names of anymore because they were lost in the antiquity of time. They were no less real to the people of that time than the gods we know and worship now.

    I believe that evolution is what has happened. That is what evidence points the way towards.

    Creationism has no merits in my book. It is another cockmamie idea fostered on the believing to seperate them from their money. If you can not get their money then take their time. Funny isn't it. If you believe then all that is required is faith. In otherwords there is no proof so don't ask.
     
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  7. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358
    Actually there are alot of facts that support evolution BUT you can dispute it. There is no real HARD evidence that proves evolution with out a doubt.
    Example: in evolution, animals are supposed to change from one thing to another... also called adaption. We have never wittnessed a bird change into a lizard or vice versa. Just small adaptations in crabs that look like they have faces on them, ect.

    Later
    T
     
  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Actually evolution does not happen on that time scale. You need to think in longer terms. There are still gaps in our knowledge of what goes where and examples of each step. We are looking for links that are literal 1000's and 100'000's of years old and longer. It is a wonder that there is anything to find after that amount of time. Missing steps leave doubts.

    At some point there were doubts on almost everything and not just evolution. Science has changed a lot of that. I am sure you no longer doubt that matter can have three physical states. You can research the science that proves such. Prehaps one day we find all the links in the chain that connect man to one celled critters that started life.
     
  9. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358

    Actually four..... Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma


    I think *scratches head*,

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    T

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  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
  11. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    You're right, forgot about the plasma. Does illustrate the point though.
     
  12. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    710
    Liquid crystal can be consider as another state of matter. Although not all matters can be in this state, but it is a state of matter no less.

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  13. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,109
    Evolution is extant, no matter what any of us might believe--for, or against.
     
  14. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,358
  15. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    When we modify corn (GM Corn) or pig or mice - do you think that will be considered evolution?

    If a level 6 intelligence (monkey at Level 0, we at Level I) modified life forms on this planet few million years ago for the heck of it, would that be considered evolution?
     
  16. Awaranowski Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    How can it be possible?

    Okay. Homo Sapiens (us) evolved from Homo Erectuses, right? Homo Erectuses roamed the earth approximately 2 million years ago. Their brains consisted of about 50 billion neurons. Our brains have 100 billion neurons.

    2 million years ago. Assume they reproduced every ten years. Divide 2 million by 10. Then you get 200,000. So that's 200,000 chances for evolution to make a Homo Sapien out of a Homo Erectus out of completely random mutations. For this to have happened, each new offspring would have to have 250,000 more neurons than its parents for approximately 2 million years straight. Either that, or some giant leap in evolution.

    But don't get me wrong. I still believe in evolution. This simply points out that there is still very much we don't know.
     
  17. Awaranowski Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    " If Gods exists then what happened the the literally thousands of gods and goddesses throughout history that we don't even know the names of anymore because they were lost in the antiquity of time. They were no less real to the people of that time than the gods we know and worship now. " - I like that.
     
  18. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    Re: How can it be possible?

    You are thinking linearly...genetic changes do not occur by adding one eye here, one finger there....it occurs at the fundamental DNA coding level. Suppose there are only five genes that needed to be turned that results in the human brain expression, it is probable that that is what happened in a specific configuration which resulted the outcome.

    The question comes to mind is how and why certain changes occur. That is what is the pre-basis that happens? I think, we are still tinkering with that understanding....

    For example, you can customize a yahoo web page (or MSN). The underlying program is already built in. A non-programmer can drag and drop a customized version in no time based on your preferences. Similarly the DNA may have all the code necessary but requires some unknown stimulus to express itself to a human.
     
  19. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,188
    tristan,

    This depends on what you mean by evolution.

    Imagine you are in a room and there is a box in the corner. You leave the room and return after a short time. The box is now in a different corner. You know as FACT that the box has been moved somehow. What you don’t know is how or what moved it. We could say that someone came in and moved it and that would be THEORY, and offers a potentially believable explanation for an event we KNOW has occurred.

    We KNOW evolution has occurred, this is FACT, what is not fully clear is HOW evolution has occurred, and that is the THEORY part, i.e. the processes of evolution. Evolution is both FACT and THEORY, and note that “theory” does not mean some form of inferior fact, but in this case a process or set of processes.

    The thread suggests that evolution might not be true. There is no doubt that evolution has occurred, but we are still searching for some of the “how” parts.

    Cris
     
  20. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,109
    In the same way, Evolution Theory's detractors know that they were conceived and then born into this world, but to a person they cannot describe nor, of their own intellectual expenditure, produce certain evidence of the exact mechanisms that made themselves possible.

    Therefore, we are to believe they do not actually exist.
     
  21. Awaranowski Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    "You are thinking linearly...genetic changes do not occur by adding one eye here, one finger there....it occurs at the fundamental DNA coding level. Suppose there are only five genes that needed to be turned that results in the human brain expression, it is probable that that is what happened in a specific configuration which resulted the outcome.

    The question comes to mind is how and why certain changes occur. That is what is the pre-basis that happens? I think, we are still tinkering with that understanding.... "

    Okay. Suppose there are only 5 genes that need to be changed. Even so, that's how many nucleotides that have to be changed for the better by pure chance? A lot.
     
  22. overdoze human Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    310
    Not necessarily. First of all, major changes in body plan are possible through a single mutation. For example, in one of the HOX genes.

    Secondly, even a single nucleotide mutation can dramatically change the efficacy/reaction profile of the various proteins in which the gene participates. Most genes are made up of codons, which can be shared by multiple genes and definitely participate in manufacture of multiple proteins. There are many (at least a couple orders of magnitude) more proteins than there are genes. So even a single nucleotide mutation may send large effects cascading through.

    It's also worth noting that mutations can destabilize surrounding genetic material and cause further accelerated mutation in subsequent generations, until the DNA stabilizes again. This has been demonstrated experimentally with mice. A strong argument for the punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution.
     
  23. Awaranowski Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    32
    Yeah. I've read something like that in Time magazine. Always learning

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