do we exist without a memory?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Agent@5, Jul 13, 2002.

  1. Agent@5 Registered Senior Member

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    558
    This is a really hard concept for me to explain. I have been thinking about it for a little while. It struck me, that so much of who we are depends on remebering what we do, and how to do things. Now, if our memory was shortened to a couple of seconds, leaving us only the capacity to remeber to breath eat drink etc, would what we do exist? Ie, if there is noone there to witness what we do, record it a present it as evidence that it has been done, how do we know that it has ever been done. ASctually more than us knowing, coz that means it only exists to humans, but what I guess I mean is, what would we be? we would loose so much... so much i dont think we we even be human.

    Kay, i explained that reallly badly!
     
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  3. Joeman Eviiiiiiiil Clown Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry. I have absolutely no idea.
     
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  5. spookz Banned Banned

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    like a vegetable i guess
     
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm going to say it would exist without your memory for the shear fact, There is a dark side of the moon I'm sure, although I will probably never see it so therefore will never remember it.

    The concept you think of, isn't one thats new but one that really stems from an artistic perception. Afterall there have been such films as "Dark City" to spook people, even "The 13th Floor" would be a good film to put here.

    So your not alone.
     
  8. Xenu BBS Whore Registered Senior Member

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    It depends what you mean by memory. Memory has been broken down into different levels. I'm assuming you are meaning things like episodic (memory of experiences), and declarative (factual memory "George Washington was the first president of the USA"), but you also have to take into account of "unconscious" memories like things such as learning to ride a bike etc. A lot of what we do as humans remain at this unconsious level. If unconscious memories were to be wiped out you wouldn't know how to do anything, you'd be like a baby again.
     
  9. Agent@5 Registered Senior Member

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    yeah, um... possibly thats what I mean..
    I dont know, at the moment, im trying to comes to grips of what it is to be human.

    and what it means not to be human.... everything we know is because it is taught to us that way, persecptions will change but will it change the object?
     
  10. Xenu BBS Whore Registered Senior Member

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    706
    Ahhh, what does it mean to be human.

    Any of the individual types of memories that I described (did you want me to describe any more of these in detail? I definitely could if you would like to learn about them) don't seem to make up a human in itself. People can have deficits in any one of these memories and still function (with abnormality) as a human.

    Here's how I would describe a human.

    Humans are a union of all of its components. The sum of all of its parts. When these are working together in harmony, you get a human. (Also not to be separated from its environment either)

    What if you remove one of those components? Such as memory.

    Well imagine you have a pile of rocks, and you keep removing rocks one by one, when does it cease to be a collective thing called a pile? There is no black or white line. This is the same for humans, you can start removing functions and body parts, but how much can be removed before the human is no longer human? Again no black or white.

    Hope this helps rather than confuses
     
  11. Erunion Registered Member

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    3
    Id say without a memory, we wouldnt be individuals, we are a collection of experiences and choices which influence what we are and will be. Of course, i think that people have atleast some inherent qualities in them too. But say you forget everything in ur active conscienceness (for lack of a better word, sorry), how could u be the same person. How do u know u would treat situations the same as u would have before. You learn from mistakes and if you dont remember you made them you wont learn and will repeat them. So with out experiences we are all the same. Clueless, you could say. Even if our motor, speak skills etc are preserved we wouldn't really be people as we think of them to be. But of course speak would be useless if you have nothing to talk about, which you cant if you dont remember anything.
     
  12. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    I think that what most people think of as a 'soul' is memory. Without memory, you would still be human technically but you would be without intrinsic human qualities. Basically, you are your memory. Self-consciousness is developed as a memory is attained.

    I have trouble when I think of AI and the possiblities of robots. If these robots have advanced AI and can attain memory, gain experience, have self-consciousness, etc...Would they be considered human? If not, why? Just because they are organically different?
     
  13. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    4,592
    When contacting alumni for a reunion last year, I discovered that one of my classmates has no capability for short term memory. His brother did not mention what caused this problem. It had to be an accident or some weird illness.

    Until his brother described the effects, I did not realize that short term memory is required for storing data in long term memory. This classmate now has the same mind he had in 1995.

    He cannot enjoy reading a book, watching TV/movies. He cannot learn anything new and gets confused if allowed to see a calendar. He has difficulty with conversation unless he is talking about memories prior to 1995, because he cannot remember what was said 5-10 seconds ago. His brother and sister-in-law have moved into his house to look after him. He can never move to another home. He would never be able to find his way back to the new home. He would not remember how to get from the kitchen to the bathroom of a new home. Even such a short trip would require searching each time.

    Before his brother moved into his house, he had trouble shopping for food and paying bills. Making a shopping list was absolutely necessary for a shopping trip. With the list and a memory of where the local market was, he often forgot why he had left the house and ended up visiting a friend instead of shopping for food. When a bill came in the mail, he would often put it down and go to get his checkbook, only to forget why he wanted the checkbook. Sometimes he would forget that he was going for his checkbook and decide to go to the bathroom or fix something to eat.

    He does know that his sister moved to Florida several years ago, and still tries to call her old telephone number if he does not happen to look at some notes by the telephone. He does remember that he needs various notes provided by his brother and left in various places in his house.

    From the description of this man’s problems, it is obvious to me that a creature without memory cannot be considered a human being. Even the squirrels I feed would not be the same without memory, and might not be able to survive without it. They would not remember where to look for food and would have to use an inefficient search strategy every time they were hungry. Note that their food supply varies with the seasons. The source in the early spring is different from the sources in the summer and late fall. They bury nuts in various places in order to survive the winter, and must remember where to find each cache.
     
  14. %BlueSoulRobot% Copyright! Copyright!! Registered Senior Member

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    No memory? I'd expect you'd be reduced to a baby. Completely naive, but with the capability of learning again. It would take longer though, because a child's brain develops at amazing rates during youth, then it slows down. So an 80 year old lady would probably not learn as fast if she lost all her memory and had to gain it back, as opposed to a 2 year old in the same situation.
     
  15. Awaranowski Registered Senior Member

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    Dark City was a good movie. Although, if you lost your memory, I think you would continue being a human. A very handicapped one, that is.

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    I think I do know what you're saying. In that your peception is more than what its definition suggests. It's reality.
     
  16. harrykarry Registered Senior Member

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    testing one two three....
     
  17. Saith Registered Senior Member

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    Have you seen the movie Momento?? The guy in that movie can't store memories. And the only stored memories he has is the memories he had prior to when he was attacked and his wife was murdered, that was his last memory. So every few minutes he completely forgets what he is doing. He can't learn anything new, but he knows how to do everything he learned prior to the attack.

    And the whole movie is played backwards to give you a feel of how it feels to be him. You won't know how the scene you are watching came to be until you see the next scene wich ends where the last scene began.
     
  18. A4Ever Knows where his towel is Registered Senior Member

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    It was Memento.

    (for when people would try to find it, you know.)
     
  19. pooyak Premium Member Registered Senior Member

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    it's like saying do we exist without a head

    dumb questions
     
  20. %BlueSoulRobot% Copyright! Copyright!! Registered Senior Member

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    I only saw the last half-hour of Dark City, but I got the impression that the Matrix spawned off of it, from the whole "realization of self" thing and when the dude stopped the dagger in midair with all the air ripples. I wish I'd seen the entire movie.

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  21. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    "but I got the impression that the Matrix spawned off of it, from the whole "realization of self" thing and when the dude stopped the dagger in midair with all the air ripples"

    People often make this mistake with movies.

    Dark City - Release Date; February 27, 1998
    The Matrix - Release Date; March 31, 1999

    I'm betting the acting for The Matrix was almost done by the end of February, they were probably into editing and special effects. And I'd bet every cent I ever make that hte Director had long finished his planning of the movie. So no, I highly doubt The Matrix ripped off Dark City. Other things? Sure. Dark City? I don't even see how it's possible.
     
  22. Markquis matrix sciences,imagery. Registered Senior Member

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    we Are Here!

    Welcome Soul,
    When We Map Out The Mind/Brain Abilities,Is To Understand Self-Control.{Example}Astral Projection,How Mush Of Us Encounter With This Ability?The Ability To Move Your Tru Mental Body Form,From Your Physical Body.But Frist We Must Track One's Mind/brain Frequencies Or Patterns.In This Process We Are Not Going To Deep In Frequencies Patterns Or Sleep And Wakefulness,But Infact We Are Going To A Meditation Patterns.Frist Is To Know Your Spirit Guid Or Teachers In Transit.
     

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