ok fine, thatt is your observation. but that observation doesn't cancel out mine also. remember it is only a 'representation' not the real thing, as such. what i am interested in is the ambiguity of the observation. ts is very much so when observing inspired with psychedelics. for example. looking at soneone's face. you can simltaneously see very very young and very old at same time sometimes. to me tis reminds me of the such ambiguous perception as we have with hypercube
MUSHROOMS can make you see alot of things... at 7 or more grams people tend to have religious visions and awake to new levels of understanding... but... that doesnt nessisarily relate directly to physical laws of reality. in fact it may all be nonsense... it depends... on alot of variables. -MT
ahaaaa,tis is what we are hopefully exploring. at least I am. ...what D we mean by 'physical laws of reality'. as you can see with an earlier post by Hurricae Angel, no offence to him, but his view that psychedelic experience is 'merely distortion'---words to that effect, ie., chemical/neurotransmitters ---is really really common. even some peple who have HAD psychedelic experience will embrace a materialistic philosophical undersyanding of what they have been through. SOMEcults in the past would be the opposite. they wpuld presume 'SPIRIT' was pimary. ie., they wouldtake their sacrament and have visions and presume that they proved physicality was an illusion, and, as for example, the Orphics, they created a very divisive ogma which said how ature was a trap, and so on what I a trying to do exploring about dimensions, and bringing in about psychedelics, is EARTH it, as it were. i am trying to explor how what we are is a continuum of experience. and that psychedelis are our ALLIES for integrating a deeper understanding of reality
When in doubt, consult good ol' wiki for everything you wanted to know about the hypercube. The graph of the hypercube I find most useful is something that looks like this: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! With a bit of imagination you can find and visualize the 8 cubes which are the hypercube equivalent of the 6 square faces on a cube. This is only a graph for the hypercube - not a real hypercube. You can't properly represent all the information about a 4D shape on a flat 2D surface. You can't even properly represent a 3D object on a 2D surface - it just so happens that we have minds that are used to 3D shapes and can 'see' a 3D shape on a flat drawing thanks to our perceptive abilities and imaginations (our brains have to construct 3D models of the world from the 2D images they receive from our eyes anyway). If you looked at a real hypercube, you'd only see a normal cube. Only light coming from 3 of the dimensions would be able to enter your 3D eyes, and you'd just see the sides of a sort of 3D cross-section of the hypercube. It's kinda like a 2D person only being able to see a side view of a square or circle when they look at what is in fact a cube or sphere.
YES ITS GOOD U MENTION THAT. WAY I DESCRIBED IT WAS 2d PERSON SEES circlesOF SPHERE PASSING THRU 2d plane. but really an eye would only see the side?....hmmmis this right? so who is seeing the circle then?
Yep, your posts did not go unnoticed (its why I added the circles rather than just squares and cubes - to link with stuff you already said). I usually also think about the fourth, fifth, ... etc. dimension with analogies about how the 3rd dimension would appear a 2 dimensional person in a 2D world. You wouldn't happen to be referring to a novel I once heard of - title is "Flatworld" or something? Anyway an observer, 2D or 3D, would only see the side. In your example, they'd have to walk around the circle to be sure it was a circle - unless they had x-ray vision or something they wouldn't be able to see through a solid surface. But it could also work kind of the same way as when you look at a football - you guess its a sphere even though you only see one side of it.
hmmmm 5th 6th dimensions.....? i am sure for now the 4th is compex enuf..hehe. we will get onto 'them' maybe later. but i INTUIT that that is like some kind of again, materialistic hierachical shit going on....cant explain what i mean right now ok. about the 2D plane thought experiment. we should keep in mind it is ONLY an analogy. maybe its better to aply itten to ACTAUl reality as many of us experience it an example. i a not a Zennist--like some of their poetry--but i read this story that might fit what i am trying to convey---cant remember actual words right now. may find it fo later, but it is about a zennist before and after his 'satori'--for tose not aware of tis zennist lingo, satori means a deep insight about reality ok, this zennist suddenly 'realizes' the moon is ROUND. in actual observation he is seein it round and not fat--like a flat 2D plan...!
you of course very much re aware of the 'deepening' of spacetime when on psychedelics. here's another example: i cant speak for your or anyone's experience about tis. but i have noticed that ordinarily when say listening to music----say you are listening to music and the music speakers or in front of you........ my usual experience can be music is 'coming from in front'? however when psychdelisized the music seems to come from 360 degrees and also exfoliates from you....and also sense of time is completely different. a track can seem to go on 'forever' even tho it doesn't....!...now if this seems absurd to you let me know?
I wouldn't attach too much significance to psychedelic experiences - your brain just confuses, mixes up, and warps all the information its getting from all your senses. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that what you're experiencing is extra dimensions.
NO, i wont be put off tis examination because of a materialistic understanding of brain, mind, psychedelics. that is why i AM bringing it into tis debate. the general --uniformed--mainstream consensus IS that psychedelics 'distort'. and i should imagine it is quite ironic that many who promote this unproven supposition havenot even HAD psychedelic experience... But, then agin, i have also had tis attitude from some people who HAVEhad psychedelic experience.......so BUT, from my very first Trip, when 15, tis has NOY been the case for me. and there are many many others who dont feel te materialistic dismissie attitude neiter, including none other than te discoverer of LSD, Albert Hofmann himself! Not sure what he tinks about 'dimensions' as i am discussin it. But in has last speeh, on his 100th birthday at his Symposium he leayed great emphasis on te URGENCY of people getting over teir prjudices about LSD etc and to begine taking it in an intelligent way and to OBSERVE Nature when inspired with it. This is exatly what i did many moons ago so, anyway back to dimensions. i amtruly surpised the lack of intererest about all tis-ie., only a few of us involved. when others are quite happy to continue spinning words about words in a never endngloop. but not seeming to wanna really explore about reality.....ODD and dead anyhow i am gonna crack on about it. US, our species since primal times have taken various psychoactive sacraments. see Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda, Dan Russell, et al itis really only our reltively very recent modern times which has prohibited any experimentation with sacraents, and also not having any awe about them. for now we is supposed to be 'just chemicals'. for tis mechanist pradigm our brains are supposed to produce consciousness so, can you not see, that in tis mental climate, any substance that was to change perceptions etc etc, would also be seen as merely chemicals distorting chemcials, electrical reactions etc? tis attitude is implying that there is such a thing as 'normal' reality which GETS distorted. as if we are objective creatures without any subjectivity moe later. gotta have a shit
LSD, MAY result in quite a few.... realizations.... but not nessisarily... real truth. dont get me wrong... ive done alot of acid... and mushrooms... and while they do open the mind.... its a question of the mind set before you take the drugs in the first place... i.e.. if your science minded... it may lead to some ideas on science. if your an artist.... it may lead to ideas about art.. but it is not a doorway to a better understanding... or a better world. it is just a tool.... to be used by the masses in moderation. and knowing its full effects... i cannot promote its use.... for anything other than recreational fun... and entertainment... mushrooms... on the other hand... has alot of history. -MT
From what i have read of psychedelic literature and research. the onus is on interiorization. Transpersonal psychology ala Stan Grof is modeled on the psychoanalytical method. which involves 'clients' focussing inwrdly Leary and co also went tis route, trying to 'push the envelope'--influenced by Tibetan Buddhim and so on Terrence McKenna on 'heroic trips' and contacting elf-infested hyperspace i am not discounting that. buti notice that method of focussing primarily on te inner, tends to create similarities wit past ideas/cults that did same. it divided experiencer from Nature But i rather gll wit prepatriarchal insight, which deeply involves celebratory participationin Nature. At no time is it as urgent as now. now that people hafe become So cut off from natrual process of Nature. most of us caught up in a semantic electronic digita; matrix i dont like te term 'tool' when applies t spychedelics and experience. i rather , Ally, or Sacrament But you see ingrained propaganda has made people--even some who have had psychedelic experience--tat the experience is mere distortion of brain chemicals and electrical interactions of neurotransmitters. Well, when we eat food. we get energy. food has chemicals etc tat energize us. also foods do contain psychoactive substances too. but we dont question oo. yet some do psychedelic food, which energizes the organismenvironment For psychedelids give deep insight into polar related reality. this WILL be a deeper dimenion. as seeing a sphere passing through a flat plane is seeing a deeper dimension. as going high up and seeing a scene from below, etc so take organism and environment. they are very much interelated. but cultural indoctrination propagates an individuals sense of alienatin from Nature and even from hir body, emotions, feelingsand so on psychedelic sacramenta give insights into tis pocess. one simulataneously feels deeply related with Nature ANDsees the dodgy 'matrix' also -----tis though wit right set and setting
LOOK... I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE... i have done over 100 hits of acid.... and i have taken alot of mushrooms... and while it may be mind expanding... it never actually answers anythiing... so to anyone who reads this... lsd and mushrooms will not open your mind to new realities... or... it will... but only for about 12 hours.... it maybe possible to gain some insight from their use... but its not gaurenteed. enviorment plays a big role... and influences... so all experiences will vary... personnaly... i cannot even think of doing that stuff again unless i am in a totally nice and cool enviorment... like at a river or beach... or someplace beautiful. because the enviorment you are in..... means everything. and those you are with... are they freinds...? will they help till the end? or abandon you.. in delerium???? it all matters... it doesnt expand the mind.. for anymore than 12 hours... so dont expect to walk away a better person... but you may feel better afterwards.... -MT
i want to try get a cleaerer picture of what you expect. of before experience, during and in integration. what is it you are looking for. we cant explore unless you maybe share a bit about this
i want answers... and in truth... drugs dont provide them... but they do stimulate ideas.... which may lead to answers... but its not guareenteed. so, ii urge caution..... lsd and mushrooms may have uses... but it doesnt answer the most important questions... or any... not really... it just causes one to see things in different ways.... -MT
