Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I'll let Xelasnave do the reading and I'll read his summary. I'm sure I'll soon be a believer though.
Did Nothing Create Everything?
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
HA HA!!! TOO FUNNY!!!
THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD
EVIDENCE LIST
WHY A MOUNTAIN LOCATED IN NORTHWEST SAUDI ARABIA, COULD BE THE REAL MOUNTAIN OF GOD THAT WAS DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK OF EXODUS…
JEBEL AL LAWZ…
EVIDENCE LIST
WHY A MOUNTAIN LOCATED IN NORTHWEST SAUDI ARABIA, COULD BE THE REAL MOUNTAIN OF GOD THAT WAS DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK OF EXODUS…
JEBEL AL LAWZ…
- Is located in “Arabia” just as Paul described in the Bible.
- Is located in ancient “Midian” (also called Madia, Madiam, Madyan, Madiane) just as stated in the Bible.
- Is located outside Egypt and also outside Egyptian controlled territories which included the Wilderness of the Red Sea (current day Sinai Peninsula) and Canaan at the time.
Note: The Sinai Peninsula was named “Sinai” only after the traditional Mt. Sinai was located there, not before. There is no real evidence at all for the Exodus account at the traditional Mt. Sinai site, and the location was selected by dreams and visions. - Is located east of the proposed Red Sea Crossing site at Nuweiba, east of the Gulf of Aqaba.
- Is located exactly where Josephus and Philo said it would be, near the ancient city pf Madyan, located in northwest Arabia.
Jewish historian Josephus described Mt Sinai as being “the highest of the mountains in the region of the city of Madiane”. And Jabal al Lawz is truly the highest mountain in that region. - Has the remains of an Altar, built at the base of the Mountain, which is constructed from natural uncut stone and earth. The Site has a Stone Wall Corral capable of controlling and directing the animals towards the Altar, a Slaughter Platform, an earthen Altar, and an Ash Pit to hold the remains of the burnt sacrifice. The Bible says in the Book of Exodus that God commanded Moses to build an Altar at the base of the Mountain out of natural stones or earth, with no steps up to the Altar. This site is an exact match for the Biblical account.
- Has the remains of 9 Stone Pillars placed near the Mosaic Altar at the base of the mountain. The Exodus account in the Bible states that after Moses built the Altar he made 12 Pillars representing the 12 tribes of Israel. The remains of 9 Pillars exist at the site today.
- Has a possible location for the Golden Calf Altar. One mile East of the Mosaic Altar, in what would have been the camp area, is a high place, a natural mound of rock, where the Golden Calf Altar could have been built. In the Exodus account, the Altar and the Golden Calf were both destroyed by Moses. But a natural rock mound on which it may have been built could have remained. And there is evidence there today to suggest that. Numerous Egyptian style bovine petroglyphs were carved into the rock mound at this site. Some of the petroglyphs have been defaced and broken off on one side of the mound, as if someone began to remove them. This elevated natural rock platform would have been visible throughout much of the camp.
- Appears to match the physical description given in the Book of Exodus for the Presence of God on Mt. Sinai…
- Exodus 19:18 says, “the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.”
- Two peaks of the Jabal al Lawz mountain range, are physically blackened to this day. Evidence that a massive source of intense heat was present on the top of the mountain in the ancient past. This mountain is not volcanic. If the events described in the Bible took place at this Site, this could be physical evidence from the Presence of God on the Mountain.
- Has a small stone quarry near the top of the mountain where the Ten Commandment Tablets and 12 Pillars could have been made.
This quarry “just happens” to sit right on the edge of the blackened area, as if it was the meeting place between God and Moses. This white quarry area is clearly visible, in Google Earth. Find the Mosaic Altar at the base of the Mountain and travel west up the narrow valley until you see a white area on the right side of the valley, along the edge of the blacked surface. The remains of 2 quarried Pillars and Tablet like discard pieces are still high on the Mountain at this quarry. - Has a massive available camp area at the base of the mountain, which extends far to the East. According to Jim and Penny Caldwell, many ancient camp rings have been found in this area.
- On the Northwest side of the Mountain there is a massive Split Rock approximately 60’ high x 40’wide x 20’thick on a hill.
Water erosion is plainly evident inside the Split in the Rock, and is carved into solid rock. More evidence of water erosion in solid rock was left behind from a waterfall that cascaded down the hill and continued on out into the plain below. The water erosion on the plain below is clearly visible in Google Earth. The top surface layer of smaller rocks in this area has been washed away.
Psalm 78:15-16 gives a clear description of “The Rock” that Moses struck in Rephidim at Mt Horeb. It states, “He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers.”
This site has physical evidence left behind from the miracle that happened there and real physical evidence for the existence of God.
The Altar that Moses built (ADONAI Nissi, or ADONAI is my Banner, Exodus 17:15) is still there today. The Altar is located at the base of the hill on the west side of the Split Rock. - Has an ancient petroglyph carving of a Menorah located approximately 30 kilometers from the mountain. According to the Exodus account, God commanded the Menorah to be built at Mt Sinai. The Menorah’s purpose in the Holy Temple was to spread the light of Godliness to the entire world.
- Has a mass gravesite with headstones to the north and outside of the area where the camp would have been. In the Exodus account 3000 men were killed because of their great sin (they worshipped demons) after the Golden Calf incident.
- Has a cleft in a rock, like that mentioned in the Bible.
- Has clear evidence of an ancient water spring that flowed down from the Mountain, as described in the Bible.
- Has a cave on the side of the mountain. The Bible testifies that at another time Elijah spent a night in a cave on Mt. Horeb. Many scholars regard Mt. Horeb, Mt. Sinai, and the Mountain of God as all names for the same location. Perhaps a more accurate understanding might be that Horeb (current day Jabal al Lawz) is the name for the larger mountain or mountain range and that Sinai refers to a major peak (current day Jabal Maqla) within the larger Horeb mountain or mountain range. This could explain how Elijah’s cave, in particular, could be both on Horeb and also on Mt Sinai. Both peaks share the same massive mountain base.
- Has Almond trees present even on the mountain today. In the Exodus account Aaron’s staff (made at the Mountain of God) was made from a branch that sprouted almonds.
- Has several possible candidates that could actually be the “Burning Bush” still alive today. Several ancient cedar bushes, living in a high pasture on Jabal al Lawz could conceivably be over 3000 years old. A possibility, but their actual age has not been determined.
- Still has the presence of quail in the area today. According to the Exodus account, quail flew in from the west and fell to the ground exhausted and provided food for the Hebrews.
- Provided access to the Presence of God on the East side.
The Tabernacle allowed access to the Presence of God on the East side. And Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden on the East side. In the Genesis account, the East Garden Gate was then shut and guarded to prevent access to the Tree of Life (Eternal Life) and to the Presence of God.
At this site, on the East side of the Mountain, East of the Presence of God (the blackened peak), the Mosaic Altar sits as a symbolic East Entrance, an East Gate reopened, allowing access to the Presence of God once again. The Sacrifice of the Lamb at the Mosaic Altar symbolized Jesus Christ. He is the Gate back to the Garden, to Eternal Life, and to the Presence of God.
Unlike any other site on Earth, this Mountain displays the Gospel in how it is physically laid out. God left a picture of salvation for the Nation of Israel and for all of us over three thousand years ago. And it becomes especially plain and clear when viewed from the air in Google Earth.
- WE ARE FAR AWAY FROM GOD IN OUR SIN… Far away from God’s Presence across from the Mountain to the East is the Golden Calf Altar, which represents Sin, open rebellion against God, idolatry, and demon worship.
- FAITH AND REPENTANCE… For intimacy with God to be restored, for us to be forgiven, and for us to be given access to the Presence of God again like we had in the Garden, we must turn completely around from having our back to God at the Golden Calf Altar, turn towards His Presence on the Mountain Repent and walk in Faith towards Him and approach Him on His terms. We both Fear His Justice and Trust His Love at the same time.
- BAPTISM… We are to be cleansed by water. In the Exodus account, to approach God Himself on the Mountain they had to first wash themselves in the water which flowed down from the Mountain.
- COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB… And we must also be cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb, by Christ’s Sacrifice. The Mosaic Altar Sacrifice was a type of, or a picture of, the future Sacrifice of Christ. And in the Exodus account, they had to be sprinkled with the Blood of the Sacrifice from the Altar before ascending to the Presence of God.
- ENTER BY THE NARROW GATE… The Mosaic Altar was the only safe gateway, point of access, to God just as the Sacrifice of Christ is the “Narrow Gate” for us today.
- THE NARROW PATH… Now take a look at the valley that ascends the Mountain to God's Presence (to Heaven). Between the Mosaic Altar and the top of the Mountain is a "V" shaped Narrow valley that leads straight to the Presence of God Himself. The Path is Narrow. According to the Exodus account, if the people tried to access God in any other way, by going up the mountain to the right or to the left they would die. And God even told Moses to place boundary markers at the base of the mountain to prevent people from dying.
That would probably happen on the day scientific theories were entered into a fishing derby.
The following Google Earth “EXODUS” coordinates are provided below.
As you arrive at each location zoom out to see where you are and change viewing angles to see the 3D terrain and look around.
POSSIBLE SITE OF MOSES WELL IN ANCIENT CITY OF MADIANE – AL BAD
28°29'8.01"N 35°01'6.81"E
ANCIENT CEDAR BUSH - POSSIBLE LOCATION OF THE BURNING BUSH
28°37'3.48"N 35°19'41.70"E
JABAL AL LAWZ RANGE (MT HOREB) - HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN MIDIAN
28°39'15.04"N 35°18'15.95"E
JABAL AL LAWZ RANGE SECONDARY PEAK – JABAL MAQLA (MT SINAI)
28°35'45.26"N 35°20'3.76"E
THEY GATHERED AT SUCCOTH –
APPROXIMATE EGYPTIAN MILITARY CAMPAIGN GATHERING SITE
30° 1'43.20"N 32°40'21.94"E
APPROXIMATE “TURN BACK” AREA (EDGE OF THE RED SEA WILDERNESS)
29°36'22.22"N 34°51'37.55"E
APPROXIMATE TURN SOUTH AREA (TO PIHAHIROTH)
29°39'2.99"N 34°41'29.56"E
ENTRANCE TO WATI WATIR CANYON –
WHERE PHARAOH SAID “THE WILDERNESS HAS SHUT THEM IN”
29° 8'54.45"N 34°29'0.90"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE PIHAHIROTH (OPENING OR MOUTH) OF THE CANYON
29°0'41.76"N 34°38'21.59"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR (WEST SIDE)
28°58'11.64"N 34°38'32.69"E
WEST SIDE OF RED SEA CROSSING SITE NUWEIBA
28°59'44.97"N 34°41'6.97"E
EAST SIDE OF CROSSING – KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR SURVEY MARKER
29° 1'48.61"N 34°51'13.20"E
POSSIBLE LOCATION OF THE BITTER WATERS OF MARAH
28°33'56.53"N 34°48'39.21"E
THE OASIS AT ELIM WITH 12 SPRINGS AND PALM TREES
28°34'9.84"N 34°49'59.69"E
POSSIBLE LARGE CAMP AREA BY THE SEA
28°30'49.43"N 34°47'57.42"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM
JESUS – THE SPRING OF SALVATION (LIVING WATER FROM THE ROCK)
28°43'36.92"N 35°14'10.07"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – THE ALTAR MOSES BUILT
(ADONI NISSI, ADONI IS MY BANNER)
28°43'32.63"N 35°14'8.28"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – WATER EROSION AREA STILL VISIBLE
28°43'41.95"N 35°14'4.92"E
JABAL AL LAWZ (MT HOREB) - HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN MIDIAN
28°39'15.04"N 35°18'15.95"E
JABAL AL LAWZ SECONDARY PEAK – JABAL MAQLA (MT SINAI)
28°35'45.26"N 35°20'3.76"E
HEBREW CAMP AREA NEAR THE BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD
NEAR THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
28°34'59.28"N 35°23'38.33"E
MASSIVE HEBREW CAMP AREA EAST OF THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
WHERE THE REMAINS OF CAMP RINGS EXIST STILL TODAY
28°34'32.95"N 35°26'24.29"E
ADDITIONAL AREA AVAILABLE FOR THE HEBREW CAMP FURTHER EAST
28°34'9.70"N 35°31'37.46"E
THE PLAN OF SALVATION WAS CLEARLY AND PLAINLY LAYED OUT ON
THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD OVER 3000 YEARS AGO
WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND HAVE ALL TURNED OUR BACK ON GOD
MT SINAI GOLDEN CALF ALTAR ON A HIGH POINT IN THE CAMP AREA (SIN)
28°34'53.25"N 35°23'46.21"E
WE MUST TURN FROM SIN TOWARDS GOD (REPENT) AND BE BAPTISED
A SPRING OF WATER FLOWED DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN
WATER EROSION STILL VISIBLE (BAPTISM CLEANSING)
28°35'5.65"N 35°23'10.53"E
WE MUST BE COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB
THE ALTAR LIKE THE GATE OF THE TABERNACLE IS ON THE EAST SIDE
AND FROM THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR ONE MUST WALK WEST
MT SINAI BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN –
MOSAIC ALTAR AND CORRAL (SACRIFICE OF JESUS)
28°35'5.00"N 35°22'43.43"E
MT SINAI BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN –
REMAINS OF NINE OF THE 12 PILLARS
28°35'5.29"N 35°22'43.79"E
THE PATH TO GOD IS “THE NARROW WAY”
THE “NARROW WAY” VALLEY LEADING TO THE PRESENCE OF GOD
28°34'54.61"N 35°21'52.86"E
QUARRY AREA WHERE STONE PILLARS AND TABLETS WHERE MADE
28°34'50.19"N 35°21'17.07"E
AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD
MT SINAI PEAK AREA (BLACKENED FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD)
WHERE MOSES TALKED WITH GOD
28°34'44.62"N 35°21'3.89"E
LIVING ALMOND TREE BETWEEN TWO MASSIVE ROCKS – CLEFT IN THE ROCK
28°35'16.97"N 35°22'25.94"E
APPROXIMATELOCATION OF ELIJAH’S CAVE
28°35'15.63"N 35°22'28.29"E
MASS GRAVESITE (THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH)
28°38'28.35"N 35°22'9.33"E
As you arrive at each location zoom out to see where you are and change viewing angles to see the 3D terrain and look around.
POSSIBLE SITE OF MOSES WELL IN ANCIENT CITY OF MADIANE – AL BAD
28°29'8.01"N 35°01'6.81"E
ANCIENT CEDAR BUSH - POSSIBLE LOCATION OF THE BURNING BUSH
28°37'3.48"N 35°19'41.70"E
JABAL AL LAWZ RANGE (MT HOREB) - HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN MIDIAN
28°39'15.04"N 35°18'15.95"E
JABAL AL LAWZ RANGE SECONDARY PEAK – JABAL MAQLA (MT SINAI)
28°35'45.26"N 35°20'3.76"E
THEY GATHERED AT SUCCOTH –
APPROXIMATE EGYPTIAN MILITARY CAMPAIGN GATHERING SITE
30° 1'43.20"N 32°40'21.94"E
APPROXIMATE “TURN BACK” AREA (EDGE OF THE RED SEA WILDERNESS)
29°36'22.22"N 34°51'37.55"E
APPROXIMATE TURN SOUTH AREA (TO PIHAHIROTH)
29°39'2.99"N 34°41'29.56"E
ENTRANCE TO WATI WATIR CANYON –
WHERE PHARAOH SAID “THE WILDERNESS HAS SHUT THEM IN”
29° 8'54.45"N 34°29'0.90"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE PIHAHIROTH (OPENING OR MOUTH) OF THE CANYON
29°0'41.76"N 34°38'21.59"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR (WEST SIDE)
28°58'11.64"N 34°38'32.69"E
WEST SIDE OF RED SEA CROSSING SITE NUWEIBA
28°59'44.97"N 34°41'6.97"E
EAST SIDE OF CROSSING – KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR SURVEY MARKER
29° 1'48.61"N 34°51'13.20"E
POSSIBLE LOCATION OF THE BITTER WATERS OF MARAH
28°33'56.53"N 34°48'39.21"E
THE OASIS AT ELIM WITH 12 SPRINGS AND PALM TREES
28°34'9.84"N 34°49'59.69"E
POSSIBLE LARGE CAMP AREA BY THE SEA
28°30'49.43"N 34°47'57.42"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM
JESUS – THE SPRING OF SALVATION (LIVING WATER FROM THE ROCK)
28°43'36.92"N 35°14'10.07"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – THE ALTAR MOSES BUILT
(ADONI NISSI, ADONI IS MY BANNER)
28°43'32.63"N 35°14'8.28"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – WATER EROSION AREA STILL VISIBLE
28°43'41.95"N 35°14'4.92"E
JABAL AL LAWZ (MT HOREB) - HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN MIDIAN
28°39'15.04"N 35°18'15.95"E
JABAL AL LAWZ SECONDARY PEAK – JABAL MAQLA (MT SINAI)
28°35'45.26"N 35°20'3.76"E
HEBREW CAMP AREA NEAR THE BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD
NEAR THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
28°34'59.28"N 35°23'38.33"E
MASSIVE HEBREW CAMP AREA EAST OF THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
WHERE THE REMAINS OF CAMP RINGS EXIST STILL TODAY
28°34'32.95"N 35°26'24.29"E
ADDITIONAL AREA AVAILABLE FOR THE HEBREW CAMP FURTHER EAST
28°34'9.70"N 35°31'37.46"E
THE PLAN OF SALVATION WAS CLEARLY AND PLAINLY LAYED OUT ON
THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD OVER 3000 YEARS AGO
WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND HAVE ALL TURNED OUR BACK ON GOD
MT SINAI GOLDEN CALF ALTAR ON A HIGH POINT IN THE CAMP AREA (SIN)
28°34'53.25"N 35°23'46.21"E
WE MUST TURN FROM SIN TOWARDS GOD (REPENT) AND BE BAPTISED
A SPRING OF WATER FLOWED DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN
WATER EROSION STILL VISIBLE (BAPTISM CLEANSING)
28°35'5.65"N 35°23'10.53"E
WE MUST BE COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB
THE ALTAR LIKE THE GATE OF THE TABERNACLE IS ON THE EAST SIDE
AND FROM THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR ONE MUST WALK WEST
MT SINAI BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN –
MOSAIC ALTAR AND CORRAL (SACRIFICE OF JESUS)
28°35'5.00"N 35°22'43.43"E
MT SINAI BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN –
REMAINS OF NINE OF THE 12 PILLARS
28°35'5.29"N 35°22'43.79"E
THE PATH TO GOD IS “THE NARROW WAY”
THE “NARROW WAY” VALLEY LEADING TO THE PRESENCE OF GOD
28°34'54.61"N 35°21'52.86"E
QUARRY AREA WHERE STONE PILLARS AND TABLETS WHERE MADE
28°34'50.19"N 35°21'17.07"E
AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD
MT SINAI PEAK AREA (BLACKENED FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD)
WHERE MOSES TALKED WITH GOD
28°34'44.62"N 35°21'3.89"E
LIVING ALMOND TREE BETWEEN TWO MASSIVE ROCKS – CLEFT IN THE ROCK
28°35'16.97"N 35°22'25.94"E
APPROXIMATELOCATION OF ELIJAH’S CAVE
28°35'15.63"N 35°22'28.29"E
MASS GRAVESITE (THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH)
28°38'28.35"N 35°22'9.33"E
And I have hundreds of on the ground photographs I can share if you wish?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
You are very kind to make such a generous offer but I must ask do you have any evidence that is not related to the Bible, you see I have no confidence in the bible.
It boils down to this..my logic...if the Bible is the word of God written via humans, you could expect it to be perfect and clearly it is not perfect, it is no where near perfect...so I can not see that it can be of any use establishing that there is a god if anything it could be used to establish that there is no god and it's entire content is made up by men..men as opposed to women even.
You sound like a sincere chap so I now feel bad trying to point out that Jesus is clearly a myth...but there is reasonable evidence to show Jesus was an invention of a Roman family concerned with implementing a statagy to control the Jews and indeed the Empire.
Both of us are guilty of the same thing which is forcing our beliefs on others.
Nevertheless I do not wish to look at your evidence other than here...
Perhaps at least attempt to answer the questions....if the Bible is the inspired words of God why is it not absolutely correct? Why does it have such an unrealistic plot...and most of all why is Jesus just one of many human gods all with attributes clearly derived from astrology and or Sun worhship.
He is but one of many establishing somewhat conclusively that he was a myth...not just a myth but a myth lifted from many myths before.
Unless you can answer these I think everything that follows has no foundation.
You seem like a nice chap and no doubt drawn to religion because you fundamentally want to be good..decent..that sort of thing...but surely to avoid the truth as you do by not addressing my questions means truth is not important to you and therefore you can never claim to be decent and honest...look at particularly that Jesus was no doubt an invention of the Romans built upon a model run many times before and based on Sun worhship, for you to avoid the truth and perpetuate the myth and trying to convince others that the myth is true is not in my view decent, honest or truthful...I have offered the truth to you on a plate.
The virtues the Romans gave to Jesus was primarily to settle down rebellious Hebrews ..think about it..the times mate.. rebellion etc... Jesus suited the Romans no one else.
Anyways although I am convinced there is no god I realise that no one can know that there is or assign anything that man does it says as due to god...if someone today rolled in with some notes and told you that he has been in the hills taking dictation from God...honestly ...would you believe him? If your neighbour told you his mate was hung in jail pronounced dead and three days later got up and walked off never to be seen again..would you believe that? If someone told you they have been chatting with a snake..would you believe that? I assume you would not believe any of those lies today but you have no trouble believing that folk who did not even know where the Sun went at night could be correct about any of those things...think it thru ..and your comment that faith is ok...well it's not...faith is the belief with no evidence..and how odd that the good book tells you to have faith when god out of anyone, if he did indeed exist, could put all the evidence before us...think it through, look for truth in real history not in a book of literature.
Anyways thanks for your offer but I have read the Bible Cover to Cover, not just the bits preachers select, but cover to cover, I also read history outside the biblical fables...so feel a little informed...just enough to understand there is no evidence of God and that Jesus was undeniably a myth.
Look just present your best shot..even if it's from the Bible..one thing that could support your claim..your best one..just one should do the trick.
Alex
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
no I have no problem with entropy nor chaos
and
oops I did not realize that this was in a religious area
I do not wish to engage in discussions of religion
(unless, of course we start with the premise that my religion is the only true religion)
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I was typing and missed it...and I will go thru it...if you are so keen why not look up all the human gods upon whom Jesus was modelled...why not look up how astrology is employed to construct all those human gods..including Jesus.
I once would play chess ..with myself...so I could try and look at my game from another view...I suggest when you look at all I say only then will you understand the game...
Interestingly I find using astronomy the original myth upon which all the human god myths were built must have been written at the great pyramid or that immediate area...the Sun on the cross seems to be only observable from there...still working on it however it seems that way...all of it comes from astrology simply be ause ancient folk had no understanding of the stars..they thought they were gods..think naming of the planets..all gods...the Sun was worshipped and humans claimed to be the son of God...
Anyways as I said if truth is important you will seek it...U will go thru your list and thank you for taking the time to post it. I have to go so I may be some time in commenting.
Alex
Of course, I understand completely. Wish you the very best!
The thing is, I think that the Exodus is real from the real physical evidence on the ground at the site. The evidence for God has just been sitting out there in the desert for over 3000 years.
And that is a total game changer for me.
How so? If we could see chemicals coming to life in a test tube, wouldn't that be evidence that supernatural intervention is not required? How would you detect the supernatural presence objectively? And how would you establish that it had anything at all to do with the creation of life?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Why should it be?
I think there is archaeology that actually shows the opposite.
The thing I would like to suggest to you is to read stuff outside the Bible.
Your lackof understanding about the big bang tells me that you have never read anything about it at all as the thing you will learn when you read any information , in the very first sentence, is that it is not about how the universe was created but only..read only a few times..it only deals with the evolution of the universe..
Yet there you were arguing against a proposition not in the theory...ask ..where did I get that wrong information...I will answer...the same place as you get the test of your wrong information..think about it please.
You can't learn science from a preacher.
I don't like the I BB theory as I cannot accept that the universe, just the 100 billion light year observable universe could at the any point be contained in the small volume as predicted by the theory...however my main concern is that it was the brain child of a Catholic priest who I expect was looking for a "scientific" point of creation...for some time before,the church or at least his little group of mates,are preoccupied with the pagan concept of a cosmic egg...and in the bible you get hints of the idea ( firmament above and below). The pagan cosmic egg conceptualised that the egg was cut in half the top half becoming the "heavens" and the bottom half the Earth below.
In my view although the science supports the cosmology the hypothisis was, I believe, driven by the desire to give creation a "scientific" basis. And at the time that was the predominate view of scientists..the idea was not highly regarded at all. In any event really you should be a greater supporter of the big bang because to take it back past it only dealing with the evolution of the universe one could easily inject god as the cause as certainly in my view with my small understanding of thermal dynamics god is probably the only answer. But I believe the universe is eternal, as did the man who produced the theory, General Relativity, upon which the big bang theory draws its supporting math. And at the time back then they had no idea that the universe was more than the Milky way...When it was discovered how big the universe must be it did not seem a problem fitting it's vastness into the small volume assigned..I just don't believe it..well not that there was nothing before the hot dense something.. I expect there may be one big bang after another and the compression of stuff is not down to the volume assigned...and the big bang cosmology is supported by very good science..all of it is tested and if wrong, which I believe certainly won't be because they have not done everything possible to find the answers, it will be better science being realised.
Yet religion all you have are stories that have no evidence and in most cases suggest the person inventing the story was crazy...certainly so crazy that if they were to come forward today and present their crazy story no one absolutely no one, Including you, would believe them.
Anyways back to it..for goodness sake at least read wiki..big bang...and I suspect you call evolution rubbish also.and if you do I offer the same advice read at least what wiki says..I have never heard a theist talk about evolution without revealing that they have never read one single word as to what the theory proposes...clearly you get you views on big bang ,and if you have a negative view of evolution would also get those views from folk who just argue against both without every having studied even just a wiki entry...is it any wonder that most thinking folk don't ever engage with theists when they simply have no idea what they are talking about...how many have ever read their Bible Cover to Cover ...I bet any that may have, if any at all, would have glazed over and not realised that what they were reading was nonsense...
Faith is a really really bad thing because it destroys your ability to think..honestly think about someone coming in with notes dictated by god today..what would you think..be honest.
Alex
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
You were skeptical before?
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
But what about the mountain...
(I assume you're hard of reading, so I'll type loudly.)
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT THE ARABIAN PENINSULA DOESN'T EXIST. THERE ARE 76 MOUNTAINS THERE. THEY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR OVER 20,000,000 YEARS. THEY HAVE PROBABLY BEEN NOTICED. PEOPLE MAY VERY WELL HAVE CAMPED AND BARBEQUED CATTLE THERE. AND THIS PROVES...
WHAT?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Proving an exodus does not prove god and I can't see why you would think it does.
Has it occurred to you that if someone saw a burning bush that did not go out that God is the only explanation...and one man's story...and why only one burning bush ever...you could think god may do it a few times could you not...probes nothing even if you have the bush or its ashes.
So what.
......all of this proves nothing about there being a god...THEY GATHERED AT SUCCOTH –
APPROXIMATE EGYPTIAN MILITARY CAMPAIGN GATHERING SITE
30° 1'43.20"N 32°40'21.94"E
APPROXIMATE “TURN BACK” AREA (EDGE OF THE RED SEA WILDERNESS)
29°36'22.22"N 34°51'37.55"E
APPROXIMATE TURN SOUTH AREA (TO PIHAHIROTH)
29°39'2.99"N 34°41'29.56"E
ENTRANCE TO WATI WATIR CANYON –
WHERE PHARAOH SAID “THE WILDERNESS HAS SHUT THEM IN”
29° 8'54.45"N 34°29'0.90"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE PIHAHIROTH (OPENING OR MOUTH) OF THE CANYON
29°0'41.76"N 34°38'21.59"E
RED SEA CROSSING SITE KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR (WEST SIDE)
28°58'11.64"N 34°38'32.69"E
WEST SIDE OF RED SEA CROSSING SITE NUWEIBA
28°59'44.97"N 34°41'6.97"E
EAST SIDE OF CROSSING – KING SOLOMON’S PILLAR SURVEY MARKER
29° 1'48.61"N 34°51'13.20"E
POSSIBLE LOCATION OF THE BITTER WATERS OF MARAH
28°33'56.53"N 34°48'39.21"E
THE OASIS AT ELIM WITH 12 SPRINGS AND PALM TREES
28°34'9.84"N 34°49'59.69"E
POSSIBLE LARGE CAMP AREA BY THE SEA
28°30'49.43"N 34°47'57.42"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM
JESUS – THE SPRING OF SALVATION (LIVING WATER FROM THE ROCK)
28°43'36.92"N 35°14'10.07"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – THE ALTAR MOSES BUILT
(ADONI NISSI, ADONI IS MY BANNER)
28°43'32.63"N 35°14'8.28"E
SPLIT ROCK AT REPHIDIM – WATER EROSION AREA STILL VISIBLE
28°43'41.95"N 35°14'4.92"E
JABAL AL LAWZ (MT HOREB) - HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN MIDIAN
28°39'15.04"N 35°18'15.95"E
JABAL AL LAWZ SECONDARY PEAK – JABAL MAQLA (MT SINAI)
28°35'45.26"N 35°20'3.76"E
HEBREW CAMP AREA NEAR THE BASE OF THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD
NEAR THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
28°34'59.28"N 35°23'38.33"E
MASSIVE HEBREW CAMP AREA EAST OF THE GOLDEN CALF ALTAR
WHERE THE REMAINS OF CAMP RINGS EXIST STILL TODAY
28°34'32.95"N 35°26'24.29"E
ADDITIONAL AREA AVAILABLE FOR THE HEBREW CAMP FURTHER EAST
28°34'9.70"N 35°31'37.46"E
You are grasping at straws that don't prove a thing can't you see that?
You are seeing stuff that is not there...where is evidence of God...
But you have not provided any evidence of God.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
You nailed it...
All I can say is burn more coal and hope for the worst....put sovereign citizens in charge of the nuclear power stations and put your trust in evolution.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I don't believe it
god just told me that I am the choosen one and the evidence is I have two hands just like him and when you follow me you will get three after lives, all the food you can eat, five sports cars, and as many hot chicks as you can manage..and if you don't follow me you will be tortured in hell for eternity and when enternity ends you will be hung draw and ...well more than quartered...run thru a blender with blunt blades...but I love you...so go forth a d multiply but don't use any of those dirty sinful private parts or the hell you will get will be much worse than just two eternities...heck I just love you so much...now give me some money...I need a jet a d a church and a pony..a white one and dont eat frogs..if you don't eat frogs you are with me...most of all don't think naughty thoughts about your neighbours wife and don't like him too much either, in fact don't think at all just know that I love you..in a very non sexual very manly way...
Maybe I should not have posted this as no doubt a line of followers is forming as I speak.
We shall all live at Jones town..er Smith town and wait for me to arrive even though I am already here.
Yes too hot to work or do anything useful so....
Alex
god just told me that I am the choosen one and the evidence is I have two hands just like him and when you follow me you will get three after lives, all the food you can eat, five sports cars, and as many hot chicks as you can manage..and if you don't follow me you will be tortured in hell for eternity and when enternity ends you will be hung draw and ...well more than quartered...run thru a blender with blunt blades...but I love you...so go forth a d multiply but don't use any of those dirty sinful private parts or the hell you will get will be much worse than just two eternities...heck I just love you so much...now give me some money...I need a jet a d a church and a pony..a white one and dont eat frogs..if you don't eat frogs you are with me...most of all don't think naughty thoughts about your neighbours wife and don't like him too much either, in fact don't think at all just know that I love you..in a very non sexual very manly way...Maybe I should not have posted this as no doubt a line of followers is forming as I speak.
We shall all live at Jones town..er Smith town and wait for me to arrive even though I am already here.
Yes too hot to work or do anything useful so....
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Do you have a picture of God..no photo then it didn't happen.
I can prove spider man is real because I have a comic with new york in it..
Honestly my friend get away from the group you are in...read something other than the Bible...or at least read all of it..a sure path to atheism...your obsession is a worry I just wish you could do something to get yourself healthy and enjoy reality.
Sincerely I wish you well.
It is just so sad to see what religion is doing to you...and all with no evidence..so very sad.
I wish I could help you.
Think about Jones town and think about Wacko ..it sounds as if you are tied up with a cult.
Look if there is a god his only expectation must be that you are truethful and decent..no god would want to see a human reduced to slavish preoccupation with stuff from two thousand years ago..please please please think it thru.
Alex