Desire for sex

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Saint, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    And, you see, that's the problem right there. We sold ourselves a bill of goods that required obliging other people. It's our own damn fault. Stop blaming women for men's mistakes.

    Do you acknowledge and affirm that women are human and have human rights?

    That's what it comes down to. It's really easy to blame Rousseau for this one. While it's true the salon doll represented a better standard of living in the context of luxury versus necessity, the outlook also transformed women's role in the social contract. We men were in charge. This was what we wanted. Now it doesn't work, and nobody's surprised when men try to blame women.

    Seriously. We did this to ourselves. And to women.

    In truth, I can only wonder what you're on about with that.
     
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  3. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    I am not responsible for how I was raised. I was raised by an overbearing abusive woman who treated my father like crap. Looking back, I can see how this influenced my expectations and set the standard for my own relationships. She was also a big women's liberation advocate which made me entirely sensitive to that movement. But it went too far. It created generations of perpetual victims who think men owe them.

    In the end my mother and I had a close relationship. But coming to terms with my life meant understanding how I had been influenced. I also fault my religions upbringing. Guilt, guilt, guilt. Fear, fear, fear. What a terrible thing to do to a child. I have read many posts made by young religious men who are suffering through the same guilt and fear process that I did as my hormones turned on. They are suffering and feel guilty for who they are. They are taught that their natural impulses are evil.

    Lord, now you're going right off the rails. Of course I do. What an insulting question.
     
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  5. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    Men's sexuality has been repressed. That is why a man has to ask if it's normal to think about sex. That is why many young men are praying for forgiveness every time they masturbate. This is why some men my age, maybe many of them, are killing themselves; and I would bet that many of those suicides could have been prevented with a healthy sex life. My advice to Saint would probably to be go get a prostitute, get laid, and [finally] quit obsessing over sex.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    ok fixed it for you
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    And your mother? Is she responsible for how she was raised?

    Really? You're going to crucify your own mother while demanding exemption from your own moral standard?

    Yeah, dude, guess what? Welcome to traditional masculinity. Blaming women for doing everything men ever told them to do is pretty much what men do:

    Look, we already know Poe is in effect; just stop:

    The changing gender roles seem to be a contributor. For example, it was once considered inappropriate for a woman to deny her husband sex. Now it is entirely normal. If a woman is completely insensitive to the needs of her husband, there is nothing that can be done except get divorced. And of course that often means putting yourself through years of hell and breaking up the family. I see little to no commitment from a large percentage of women. They let themselves go, get a big attitude, and expect to be loved and appreciated for who they are while treating their husbands like slaves who have no need for a life. This is one reason I enjoy the company of young women. They don't come with the attitude problems. And they know and accept that men need sex, without judging.

    The expectations of men have only increased but we got NOTHING in return. We are supposed to work till we drop dead... just make sure there is a good life insurance policy before you go.

    If you read up on why so many men my age are killing themselves, the changing gender roles are often cited as one reason. I would put my stamp on that. But more than that, I would also blame the hyper exaggerate female empowerment crap. In my experience, it is just used as an excuse to be selfish and inconsiderate... if not intolerable!


    (Ivan Seeking, #40↑)

    Seriously, what an insulting, terrible, what-kind-of-person-would-write-that rant.

    And that's why I think Poe is in effect. You can't seriously be offering the thesis that men are killing themselves because they can't oblige women to be their sex slaves.

    But it's also why I ask the question: Okay, so you acknowledge and affirm that women are human and have human rights. That's great. Now, try acting like it. Please. You know, just for kicks, even. C'mon, give it a try ....
     
  9. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    There's still a lot of shame put on women and not men, when it comes to women desiring sex, especially outside of marriage.
     
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    aye
    there's the rub
    (double entendre intended)
    .............................
    According to one anthropology hypothesis, female promiscuity in tribal situations was the norm...... something about all males thinking that they might be the father, so the child would be well protected.
    Seemingly still quite common is some african tribes.
     
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  11. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    That's interesting. Not an advocate for being promiscuous for either men or women, for a number of reasons, but the double standard will always seem to exist. The desire for sex is a natural beautiful thing, but it can lead one astray if the desires become something of a main focus.
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe sex is like money?
    One of my sculpting mentors said of money:
    "Money is only important if you don't have any."
    But then again, I've known millionaires who were still scrapping for every cent they could get.

    There are actually meetings for "sex addicts anonymous"

    Some folks will just never find comfort in moderation?
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Do you thank men have a naturally stronger sex drive than women... which is part of the reason that men are more promiscuous.???
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Everyone is different, but I don't think all men are necessarily more promiscuous than women, on average...our society just frowns upon women's promiscuity over men's.
     
  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Only good sex matters. lol I'd rather spend a lifetime as a celibate woman, than spending it with someone of whom I had zero chemistry, and zero orgasms. Wow, that sounds so superficial. But, since we're on the topic of sex.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Do you thank on average that men have a stronger sex drive than women.???
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    On average, yes.
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    Have you ever considered your mother's upbringing? Was she perhaps compensating or imitating how she was raised?

    How about your father?

    Which is normal. You were raised in what appears to be an abusive household. Of course this would have affected your views on the dynamics of a relationship. Of expectations, respecting the other party to the relationship. I suppose it played a factor in your saying this, for example:

    What you left out there is the husband's response to the needs of the wife. In the good old days, men could legally rape their wives, because it was inappropriate for a woman to deny her husband sex. Society has moved past that and understood that women also have needs, that their right to their bodies are more important to their husband's right to the wife's body for his sexual pleasure. You are saying this as though it is a bad thing.

    I'm sorry, what?

    As a woman and a feminist, who is raising two young boys, that is absolutely insulting and offensive.

    You have just railed against how women somehow owe men their bodies for sex, and then you say this.. I don't think that men owe me. I do think that men should respect me as a person and respect my needs, wants and desires. To wit, my role as a woman is not to please men. Do you understand the difference?

    Religious ideology is patriarchal, male driven and male orientated.

    And you wonder why women rebelled against this? But you blame women for rebelling because it removed the patriarchal role of the man as the head of the household, who owned all, including the woman's body, denying her the right to say no to sex.. That was the old normal. The new normal recognises that women are human beings with rights over their own bodies, that we do not exist there for the man's pleasure. You complain about how hard it is for young men who exhibit normal sexual behaviour, have you considered how it is still impossible for young women who also exhibit equally normal sexual behaviour, desires and needs? Girls are being labeled as sluts and whores, ostracised from their community, even blamed for being raped. Rape victims, for example, are often blamed for bringing it onto themselves.

    Then how, pray tell, were you able to come out with this:

    Because that statement reads like you have a real issue, Ivan. It is inherently sexist and disturbing.

    The idea that women, wives in particular, exist to please the husband is appalling. What? You think she has to keep her figure, look a certain way, behave a certain way, jump into bed each time he wants sex, be the obedient little puppy?

    It appears as though the reason you like young women is because you wish to be the dominant one. You wish to be listened to and obeyed. You don't want someone who is going to challenge you or your authority. Is that the case? Because from what you are saying, that appears to be the case. Your saying you don't want attitude from a woman, basically reads like you don't want a woman who is going to challenge your hierarchy as 'the man'.
     
  19. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Proper information an trainin leadin to attitude adjustments will go a long way toward fixin mens misogynistic behaviors but im not sure its the final solution.!!!
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Peer group identification?
     
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Misogyny has nothing to do with sex drive.
     
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  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    O... i guess it just causes men to cheet an rape more than women do.???
     
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    now
    If only I knew what misogyny was, exactly or what motivates a misogynist, I might be able to formulate a pithy remark.
    (sigh) but I do not understand.

    I would hazard the guess that something of the irrational is involved.

    ............................
    admittedly, there are certain high pitches in certain women's voices that are more grating to my nerves than fingernails scraping a chalkboard.
    (i doubt that that qualifies)
     
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