Daughter Kept in Cellar 24 Yrs

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Orleander, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. draqon Banned Banned

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    Bells what does not add up to this story?

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    Stop insinuating the morality everywhere like it is the rule by which this universe is governed. The man had a sexual drive, he obviously did not control it, he commited a crime and hid this sexual crime and decided to keep it so for years, he obviously got what he wanted from her and treated her like an animals. Now what does not add up? huh? everything adds up, he should be locked up in psychiatry jail because his treatment of her was animalistic.


    Are you are saying this is not human of him to do? Well he is a human just like you and me, and we all are capable of what he did but luckelly we are sane individuals and without chemical imbalance.
     
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  3. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Space.
    It's eternal depths.
     
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  5. draqon Banned Banned

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    youll freeze there...but before that happens you will loose yourself there. Space will become you and you will no longer be unique and have a consciousness to separate yourself from the rest...So you cannot hide in space because you will not be anymore
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I'd say you're kidding, but I fear you're not

    Every question that might arise about this story, then, is answered?

    Try it this way: If you just watched this movie, would you have seen all there is?

    The answer, of course, is no. We never see all there is, even with fiction. What questions, then, remain? There are a few that are obvious.

    As Bells pointed out, the experience of Rosemarie Fritzel is something of a story in itself. Three children raised in prison under the house? How exactly did that go? "Oh, he's just off to his workshop. It makes him so happy to spend time down there."

    Was it religious faith or a psychiatric condition that compelled her to care for three "adopted" children? Is infant abandonment a common thing in Europe, so that, by the third child "left" at the doorstep, she didn't even question the issue? Did these children look remotely alike? Did Rosemarie suspect, and live in acute denial, or did she legitimately have no freakin' clue?

    Your attempt to close the philosophical chapter on this is almost exactly as inadequate as saying that the police came and rescued the girl and her children and everyone lived happily ever after.
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    You can't see what doesn't add up?

    Lets see, the fact that he was able to go to such lengths to keep her and their children in the cellar for 24 years, without anyone noticing that he was up to something a bit fishy? Primarily his wife? The other children?

    How does someone install that kind of security and hardware.. a hidden concrete reinforced door to access the basement, with electronic security.. without his wife even noticing? Didn't she question why he was doing it? Didn't anyone else? Did he get workmen in there to actually install the door and the plumbing and electricity at some point in time? Did she notice his dragging down a TV and other pieces of furniture at one point or another? Didn't she raise questions when the 3 children appeared on her doorstep? How did he come to access the drugs he used on his daughter in the first place? And that's just for starters..

    I understand you are hung up on the "sex" aspect of this story. But that is, just one part of it. That does add up. The guy was a sick bastard who kept his own daughter and other children hidden and locked up in a basement for his own amusement. What does not add up is how he was able to go to such lengths and not be noticed by anyone in his near vicinity.
     
  9. Kadark Banned Banned

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    This is why we have capital punishment.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I fail to see what that would actually accomplish.
     
  11. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I can't imagine spending 24 years without ever seeing daylight. 3 of those kids were raised never having fresh air or grass, birds, sunlight...
    I just read the max he could get is 15 yrs. He's been raping his daughter for 31 years. He made her have his children. He made her give birth in a cellar by herself. I'm horrified. Maybe that's why Austria has people who lock other people away for years.

    ...Fritzl was placed in pretrial detention and faces up to 15 years in prison if charged, tried and convicted on rape charges, the most grave of his alleged offenses under Austrian law....
     
  12. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    bells, there is one possable answer i surpose. Could it just have been a fall out shelter that was already there?

    Of course that doesnt explaine the REALLY fishy thing of 3 children dumped on his wifes doorsteep that she raised without ever checking whos they really were
     
  13. mrow Unless Registered Senior Member

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    I read this article before I saw this thread and that's exactly what I thought. 24 years with your father constantly raping you and giving birth to his kids?? How the hell did she not?!:shrug:
     
  14. mrow Unless Registered Senior Member

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    I wonder what the kids are like...
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    If you were in her position, would you kill yourself and leave your kids in the care of the man who did it to you in the first place? I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Don't forget, not only was he sexually abusing her since she was 11, he then drugged her and locked her up in a basement, continued to rape her for a period of 24 years, made her give birth to his children, one of whom he disposed of by burning it in an incinerator after it died a few days after it's birth. You'd kill yourself and leave your children in his care?

    Probably forever scarred and damaged after what they had to endure.
     
  16. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7371764.stm

    i think its awful, what that woman and her children went through, it is said that she had 7 of his children, and none of them saw daylight!

    but i guess if your born into that situation then you dont know any differant and you don't ask about the world! :shrug:
     
  17. mrow Unless Registered Senior Member

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    Right, that's exactly what I mean when I wonder what they're like. Clearly not the social norm, but I'm interested to see if they're at all happy even if not normal, having not known anything else in life. It'd be interesting to see how they view the world.
     
  18. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    yes, and i would!

    i would not.........after 24yrs, wanted to see the sun for the first time, it must be like an alien world to those kids, and the media should leave them alone after the initial shock is over with and let them deal with life the way they need to, what bugs me though, is the mum was upstairs, why didnt she do somthing about it?

    did he beat her, and abuse her aswell, was she scared of him, was she affraid of life alone?
     
  19. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The father made her write letters saying she couldn't handle/afford the kids, pinned a note to them and left them on the front doorstep. He was always the one that 'found them' and they were always too young to tell where their mother was. Why he did this to certain children and not other....????
    Here she was in the cellar trying to survive and her family thought she was probably a drug addicted hooker somewhere having kid after kid she couldn't take care of.

    Try and imagine what would have happened if he had dropped dead of a heart attack. They would have starved to death and rotted in that cellar.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    That's what I don't understand. How can no one have noticed it? I read somewhere today that he was an authoritarian who had forbidden his wife and other children from ever entering the basement, and that was why his wife did not know. Wouldn't that alone have raised some suspicion that something was not quite right.. that he might have been up to something?

    And the children left on their doorstep. They never once did a DNA test to check that they were her children or to see if they could track down the father? How is it so easy to adopt children left on your doorstep with a note attached saying that it was their supposed grandchild? Aren't tests done to establish maternity and/or paternity?

    I just don't buy the notion that his wife did not know. How could she not know? No one in his family saw him taking food, clothing, and everything else one needs in one's day to day existence, into the basement.. in 24 years? No one noticed that he would have been buying baby clothes and items for his imprisoned children? No one noticed anything? Why just take out the middle children and leave the rest behind? How could the wife and others living in the building not notice the fairly extensive work that had been done in the basement in the first place? She didn't question when the bathroom fittings were put in? How about when he took the TV into the basement? As I said before, there are so many aspects of this story that simply do not add up.
     
  21. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    How old were the children?

    We are talking about an old man here, so I am wondering why they did not all jump him to get out?

    Then again living in a basement all your life I don't think you could do much but they out number him and he is old, I think they could still have done it.
     
  22. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Also, would be interesting to know how the mother brought them up? Did she tell them about the outside world or just pretend that the basement was all there was?
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    From what I understand, the oldest was 19 and the youngest was 5 years of age. The eldest two children and the 5 year old had remained with her in the basement, while the others were brought up to the real world. I think they may have had a TV in there with them, if earlier reports are correct. I also read that she taught them to read and write as well. Lets not forget, she was around 18 years of age when she was drugged and taken to the basement. I suspect the shock of what had happened to her and what was happening to her would have preyed on her somewhat. As for the children, who knows what their health was. I doubt being locked up in a small confined space for the whole of your life would do much for muscle strength and what not.

    Even if they did manage to injure him or even kill him, how would they have gotten out though? The door to the basement had an electronic keyless entry, which I would imagine he locked each time he came and went from the basement. Unless they knew the code, they would have simply rotted in there. And the door was made from reinforced concrete, so they could not have simply knocked it down. The basement was also apparently soundproofed, so no one would have heard them.

    The depth he went into to keep them hidden is ridiculous. It is something that one could not even imagine.. especially in light of the fact that not even his wife knew what he was up to. How does one install that kind of security system and build that kind of hardware without anyone knowing or noticing? It's just bizarre.
     

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