No! woody I just try to use her as an example, those who supposedly work for the good lord, have ominous motives. i.e. Wealth, power, living by the means of others, they produce nothing, they give little in comparison to some scientist who discovered say Penicilin, for example. These people provide nothing but a name for themselves, a good life on shoulders of alms from others, and admiration from the bafoons who think of them as noble. Godless
Are you saying in your view, that many if not most missionaries go to obscure places in the third world, live under poor conditions, work with those people, in some cases risking their lives -- all for the cause of fame and fortune? Is that your assessment of christian missionaries -- that they have mercenary motives?
Yes! they are doing it for one reason only Woody. They do it with the hopes to convert, these ignorant despots, they do it, to favor in their view a place in heaven, they have no genuine ideal, other than looking forward after death for some type of reward. It's been thousand of years, missionaries been around the globe, people are still starving, what they hell have they really done woody? NOT a GODdam thing, to help those people, when they refuse to convert, they are left as they found them, and move on. Now take for example penicilin, it has cured millions of infectious desease around the globe, actually it has irradicated some millions of infections that used to kill people by the droves, penicilin has done much more then these missionaries. Godless
Crap. You have a) seriously defective knowledge of the work of the majority of missionaries through history, up to, and including the present; b) zero understanding of the complex motiviations involved in the decision to become a missionary c) a level of self centred arrogance that generally typifies Woody, not those arguing against him. Try a dose of reality, why don't you?
click click *The Niyogi Report has already been used by the ideologues of the Sangh Parivar as ballast for their anti-Christian arguments. Sweeping under the carpet the substantial body of criticism that appeared following the publication of the Niyogi Report, S. Gurumurthy has used the report as substantiation for the thesis that Christianity in India is funded from abroad and owes its allegiance to foreign interests. (The New Indian Express, January 18 and 30, 1999.) He has quoted in extenso from the Report to "prove" that Christianity, as early as the 1950s, had an agenda of indiscriminate conversions especially of Adivasis, of disruption of non-Christian societies, and of the use of schools, hospitals and orphanages as means to facilitate conversion.*click Mormon missionaries FRAUD Need I go on? Yes I do; here's some more for you to learn; Christian missionaries click again click again And after you read all that. STFU! :bugeye: Godless
How many missionaries do you know first hand? Do you read liberal left-wing reports and accept it as true? I know several missionaries and they know me too. In their belief system they are trying to save people from going to hell. This is what they honestly believe. Yes, they also believe in a reward in heaven, but the main motivation is compassion. What if you believed all unbelievers were literally going to an eternal hell to burn forever? Would you say anything, or would you just say "well that's their problem?" It sounds like you are saying they shouldn't really care. I know one in Liberia west africa. Do you think it's a vacation down there? In his time of service he's survived two civil wars, and he's escaped at least one known attempt to take his life -- thanks to a flat tire that saved him and his family from being ambushed.
Umm.. doesn't that then mean these missionaries are going to try to convert these people to uhh.. save them from that hell? You argued yourself into a hole.
Godless, I had a look at the first couple of links you offered to 'put down' the work that missionaries do and I have to say I am now quite confused about what you are trying to get at. I've only scanned the items quickly, so if I've missed the point could you redirect me. The first link seems to be from a Jewish organisation setting out the 'tricks' that Chirstian missionaries use to try to convert Jews. I don't see what relevance this has. The reason missionaries exist is to convert others to their faith. I don't think anyone is denying that, certainly not the missionaries. Calling them the argument techniques used by missionaries 'tricks' seems to say as much about the rhetoric of the website authors as it does about the missionaries. The second link is about the son of missionaries in the Phillipines who conned various people and companies out of large sums of money. Wow! Golly gee, missionaries sometimes fail at bringing their children up to be responsible citizens. Who would have guessed it. Including the third link is wierd. It is a critical, one might well say, hostile analysis of the origin of Mormonism. I suspect most Christian's would find little to disagree with in this analysis. What it has to do with Christian missionaries in the Third World is not clear. Well, actually I don't think it has anything to do with them, but I'm trying to be charitable. I'm not agreeing with Woody and Ophiolite here. I am asking how these links you have offered show that missionaries are a corrupt and self serving. Your point may be correct, but I really don't see how your links support it in any kind of way.
W: “Probably not. Do you see any atheist missionaries in the world?” * Thanks. You have said it all. (BTW - Your honesty is coming along nicely. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) W: “Well to be perfectly honest with yourself, you don't believe the bible anyway, so there wasn't any slavery. If there was slavery then the bible (being so unreliable) probably didn't get it right.” * Oh, boy. “Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; etc.” Leveticus * The point is, God COMMANDS his favourites to have slaves/bondsmen/(insert apologetic term here). Your tangent is inqonsequential. W: “The quote you provided was in Leviticus - part of the old-old testament, which also commands us to stone someone to death for gathering sticks on the sabbath (saturday). The world economy has changed a lot since those days. “ * Mmmm. Why don’t you toss Leveticus out of your Canon if you disagree with it? Better still, toss the entire OT out. Unless of course the OT is the word of God, and your Jesus is the god of the OT? Is he or is he not? A one word answer will do.
Stretched, here is a chain of consequences: You have chosen an ambigous way to present the quotations of others in your last post. Thus it is not clear who said what, when and to whom, and certainly not why. Therefore, your position on whatever it is you think you are discussing is as clear as an obsidian ornament Consequently most people will completely ignore what you have said. You now have a choice, the principle options of which are: Take umbrage at the fact that I have pointed out your shortcomings and attack me for pedantry. Take my remarks on board as a constructive criticism of your posting style. Remember Marshal McLuhan.
per stretched: If you study that period of history, most nations had slaves. It was very common, as well as multiple wives -- Abraham had several. Who are you to say slavery was wrong in that economy? The entire Soviet Union was under slavery, as well as China. Isn't that the communist philosophy -- the state owns everything: you don't even have the right to own property, or vote, or speak your conscience, or have a religion, or move to another country? Isn't that slavery a well? The freedom you and I enjoy in the United States is a luxery -- and it is not the norm for human history. Yet many left-wingers embrace socialism and communism as the direction our nation should go in. It is nothing more than slavery, so why can't you be fair when you pass judgment? Whether you want to admit it or not, we are slaves in our own country. Your per centage of slavery depends on your tax bracket. All slaves throughout history were "taxed" 100% (they worked for no disposable income) -- this includes african american slaves. I'm a 35% slave when I count sales tax and property tax. What per centage of a slave are you? Stop paying your taxes and see what happens. You will become a 100% slave in the pen. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Must you resort to name calling? can't do any better than that. Like snakelord pointed out, the only true work of missionaries is to convert people. How are these conversions made? By deceit of course, it's a deception to go like with all godly good intention to help these people, and then try to bribe them their beliefs. Are you really that fucking densed? Godless
It has a world of relevance to the issue. A genuine help from an individual does not also carry a mandate, to convert their beliefs. If missionaries actually whent about helping people, without trying to change their minds or beliefs and customs, there wouldn't be an issue. The help is genuine, without any content other, than true humanitarian work. Which btw they have never done. A little story that came out after the Tsunami, was some of these "missionaries" refused aids to a village if they didn't convert. WTF was that? Was it humanitarian?, Can you see the US government for example doing the same?. No! There you have it, these people are nothing more than promoters of their religion, they go in with a deceitful intention under the banner of "humanitarianism". http://in.news.yahoo.com/050116/139/2j1rp.html Godless
Godless, Do they have names? Do you know them personally? I have a step-brother in law that is a christian missionary in china. He believes the bible is true, and he teaches at his own personal risk. I also personally know several other missionaries, and they are honest, decent people. Yet you say they serve lies with evil intentions, and thus Satan, the Father of all lies. What a dichotomy! Don't you find your assessment to be incongruous? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Missionaries are like any other people - they do things according to their desires, drivers and conscience. Some missionaries are seemingly more driven by the belief that converting is more important than aiding - and others are the other way round - where aiding is paramount. I certainly wouldn't want to generalise one way or the other.
They serve lies, woody cause they have no proof of their god, they go with intentions to convert, thus no genuine good intention of humanitarianism. Humanitarianism does not carry the baggage of religion, you either help someone with no strings atach, or you help them and then try to lead them to your ways of belief. This is not humanitarinism. Though some of these people go through lengths, even sacrifice their very lives to the cause, makes no difference, they are there to educate, convert, people toward christianity, and thus increase their fary tales world view. Godless
To my consternation I see I missed an 'L' from his name! It should be Marshall. He was a Canadian academic, a Professor of English, who came to prominence for his dissection of the media. [I'm not sure that he didn't introduce the term media into everday usage.] He was an icon of the sixties. He is most famous for his statement The medium is the message, which is generally taken to mean that the way something is conveyed is as important as what is being said. If you want to know more about him here is a link: http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/main.html
Yes. When I see a supposedly intelligent, educated person, express views so warped by a deep bias that their arguments are beyond reason and their position more self righteous and distorted than their opponents, then name calling is the only sensible recourse left. Since you have abandoned reason I feel no obligation to employ it myself, while venting my contempt for your approach is immensely satisfying. Can I do better? Of course I can, but until you demonstrate you are worth it you shan't get any of it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
