Conscious effort required for simple acts?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Dinosaur, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I have some type of nerve malfunction relating to my legs. for example.
    I used to be able to read & walk, even on uneven non-paved surfaces. Circa 5-10 years ago (not sure when it started) I fell several times. I no longer try to walk & read & believe I am using my visual system to help maintain my balance when walking.

    There was an article in SciAm 20 plus years ago about there being a large number of sensor nerves in the bottom of the foot. These are used to transmit data to the brain which sends motor nerve data which provides for maintenance of balance.

    Recently, I discovered that it requires conscious thought to get up from a sitting position on the floor. I used to decide to get up & it happened. Now I have to consciously focus on getting up as a problem to be solved.​
    It is obvious that my nervous system is not functioning properly.

    I have a lot of friends who are doctors. None of them are familiar with such symptoms. A bit of Web searching has convinced me that it is a waste of time to go to some specialist in neuropathology (my word processor does not recognize this word). It looks like they have no worthwhile therapies for many problems related to the nervous system, although they have some good approaches for teaching people how to better cope with various neurological problems. Since I am coping with my problems, I have not sought professional help.

    Is there anyone at SciForums with similar neurological problems?
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Normally, we tend not to pay attention to many of the simple things we do; and only pay attention when the part of the body that we use is injured or otherwise incapacitated.

    For example, if you stubbed your toe, you will walk more attentively, in order to not exacerbate the pain. But once the pain is gone, you likely go back to the same old kind of automatic walking (that got you to stub your toe to begin with).


    One can always put in conscious thought into how one does simple bodily activities, including how one breathes.
    Dancing artists, actors, athletes, animal trainers, meditators have to do so as part of their job description.


    As we age, the body isn't as agile and as strong as it used to be, so it requires more conscious effort to move it around.


    Or your body is simply aging and you've begun noticing both the aging and the fact that it indeed always requires effort to do things with the body anyway.
     
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  5. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Hi, Dinosaur.

    If I were you I would consult a neurologist. There may be something going on that can to be corrected before it gets worse.

    Another term you may want to read up on is neuropathy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropathy
     
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  7. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt that it is because of aging, a doctor would notice if that's the issue.

    I'm not a doctor and I don't have similar problems myself but I do recommend that you - in a safe way - try to practise walking. The nerves needs constant stimulation for the motoric memory to form (which is what controls your body automatically when walking etc.).


    I would research problems with motoric memory if I were you. Search for it on google.
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Hi. Sorry to learn of your problem. You may know that loss of the neural feed-back from the feet, which is important for walking or just stand standing with eyes closed, is not rare. It was quite common before syphilis was brought under control. The term "syphilitic walk" existed. I. e. many, especially old men, walked without lifting their feet - they literally "shuffled along." Diabetes also a attacks the neural sensor of the four extremities (and the retina, which is sort of the extreme sensory end of the optical system)

    A few times each month, I notice, while standing I am losing my balance and starting to fall forward. That greatly increases the force on the front of my foot, and I notice it long before in any real danger of falling forward. For the last month of so, I have periods, usually just after getting in the morning or an hour or more here sited at this computer, of dis-equilibrium, not like dizziness, more like a crary sense my head is not where it is and my eyes are telling me it is - some sort of conflict between my visual and proprioceptive sensors. It can last up to five minutes. Deep and rapid breathing does not seem to help. Aslo under mining my first ideas as to cause is the fact that years ago, when essentially motionless except for turing page of book I was reading when I got up quickly, I did have "tunnel vision" for 10 or so second. - that was caused by suden lack of blood flow the back of my brain - the more perimeter parts of the visual cortex.

    My latest theory as to cause of this is fact I had a bad cold that began about a month ago also and is still lingering some. Perhaps the fluid in my semi-circular canals is a little viscous or sticky so the otoconia (small calcium carbonate stones) don't roll in it as they should. Perhaps the cold has nothing to do with the problem. I buy year's supply of vitamins & Metamucil each annual visit to the US where it is 1/3 the price in Brazil. My supply of Calcium pills ran out also about a month ago and I only drink less than one glass of milk each day (in form of home-made yoghurt)

    This video is interesting and makes it seem like crabs have some level of consciousness - a persistent successful effort to steal the bait from trap and get away free:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2981957/Watch-light-clawed-crab-sneaks-trap-steals-bait.html
    The video is below a couple of still photos from it - may need to "page down" to it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2015
  9. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    So much of what the body does is processed unconsciously, by the main frame aspects of the brain. The conscious mind uses 1-10% of the brain, while the unconscious mind uses 90-99% and normally takes care of many things such as the mechanics of walking. All the conscious mind has to do, is think a command line. "walk there", and the unconscious mind does the rest.

    In your case, there is a disconnect somewhere in the chain of command. Besides physiological or hardware reasons, there are also firmware reasons that can cause this. You explanation of reading and walking, suggests to me this is based on firmware, not hardware.

    Reading is an exercise that does not use the body. The subroutines connected to the mechanics of reading don't need body locomotion, beyond the eyes. They need you to sit, and not use the body.

    Picture your animal body as a horse, and you are the rider; connected via thought commands. When you take your horse for a walk, you are not interacting with your horse, but are reading. Horses are very sensitive to your emotions and to your vision, body language and physical cues. What the horse is feeling, is not from the world as it is, but the world induced by the reading. The horse is sensing the need to stop and sit, due disconnect. If you road a real horse and was having an hallucination, he would feel your disconnect and might start to buck.

    To get the horse to return to your command, you need to separate these two activities, so your body/horse feels you are leading him in real time reality; he and you see the same things. Reading can be done separate, when the horse is resting. This trigger the unconscious to cooperate again both it needs for activity and rest.

    If you had a pet or child who needed your attention, being absorbed in a book will create a disconnect with them. They may stop trying to get you to play, so you no longer connect, or they might start acting up, to get your attention so you need to stop reading when they need you. The inner self, which runs the unconscious mind, is on a sit down strike until you learn this lesson. You needs use you body/horse as nature intended.
     
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    As I recall, you are more-or-less a decade older than me (71). I find that many of my muscles are not as strong as they used to be, so it requires more balance to perform actions that I used to be able to do by relying on strength. For example, I can still get out of an easy chair using only my leg muscles for pushing... but now I have to put my arms out in front of me to maintain balance while performing the act. (To be more specific, I recently had to have surgery on a torn meniscus in one knee, which greatly reduced its strength--souvenir of an injury 35 years ago.)

    You may be experiencing something similar. If so, it's not a neurological problem. It's just what happens to our muscles as we grow older, unless we beat ourselves to death like Jack LaLanne, trying to impress the youngsters.
     
  11. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it's an odd problem. Is there no feeling of numbness?
    I have some peripheral neuropathy, which has symptoms of tingling and numbness in fingers and toes.
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/peripheral-neuropathy/basics/symptoms/con-20019948

    If it was peripheral neuropathy, your doctor would almost certainly have recognised it.
    It isn't uncommon.

    In your case, seeing a specialist is a very good idea.
    Your doctor should refer you to one.
     
  12. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    1.deterrence of oneself being marred from position of complete health occurs of variable means apparently; a major cause of physical sensation and or limitation is voyeur infliction & it's colloquial language use upon it's subjective let's say 'actor or 'actors. here the word colloquial defined as collective quip language.. a means of employ based on what may be relative inspired by the War Games movie from apparently the 1980"s mixed into an elder multi-sectarian ethnic mutualism of variability what's mix is avert in it's changing order and ordering of it's echelon claim of what seems Incarnative(reincarnative) focus. Now this abide that has been around as a primary for too long, doesn't know it costs gaven. It appears that beings bargain people in to this technological realm in spiritual guarantee of some kind, employing a user/ abuser relevance where the Kings and Queens so to say of the orders (the sectarian elders) give approval in their ignorance to their underlings>deluded by their predecessors award systemology. Meanwhile, all forms of basic representative document/textbook/ are exaggerated what seems by this oddly mutual order that is big and has been networking possibly since the 1940's.
    Their periphery needs to end, for humanity to have opportune to reformat itself. war doesn't end war, fighting doesn't end fighting, delegating is basic.

    perhaps science in it's begin was really only industrial/food/drink/architecture/transit/furniture/utility's/birth control&'basic document for the greater norms of 'family and 'business 'behavioral responsibility therefore equal opportunity being an greater ease of $providorship from government cooperate standpoint. For too long now it has been seeming that this ?books/ media inclined network in the above mentioned section 1. is creating and has been creating with it's multitudinal tactics of voyeurism !continued represent of dramatic states of maintaining itself really at a continuum of disadvantageing to keep it's place. Their networking steals good from what good can be it's just too much.
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    WTF? Anew, Why not post directly in the cesspool to save mods some trouble? (I'm not one anymore, so don't feel constrained to be soft-spoken and polite as I once did.)
     

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