# Civility in Political Discourse.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Buffalo Roam, Mar 10, 2011.

1. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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I didn't see you post anything resembling math

you can repeat the same old talking points it still doesn't change the harm you wish to inflict on the country

3. ### siphraRegistered Senior Member

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LOL, yes harm: I guess strengthening the economy, military and individual liberty could be considered harm by someone who wants to present his ideas as utopian. Take a 3 corporation case:

Just to repeat the math:

Corporation 1 produces product A at a cost of labor only $1 per unit time and produces 1 unit over the same unit time. Each unit .: costs$1 to produce. (This would be a natural resource....)

Corporation 2 Purchases product A at a cost of $2 and runs a process on it with its own natural resource. The resource it obtains by the same formula costs$1 per unit, and the final process run Also Costs $1 per unit for labor. Each unit produced costs a total of$4 for this company. (Are you following how this works?)

Corporation 3 Purchases product B at a cost of $6 and is a final retailer paying each employee$1 selling each unit for a price of $10... Now if you Increase the labor cost by passing a minimum wage law of$1.50
Corporation one now needs to sell it's product at $3 to maintain its profit margin. (can you see how this works? 1*1.5 =$1.50 2*1.5 = $3 margin stays the same, allowing for any production increase, investor payments, etc.) Now corporation 2 is buying the material at$3 and has to now pay its employees $1.50 instead of$1. so the cost to this company has increased. Instead of producing its own resource at $1 it costs$1.50 and it costs a total of $6 per unit increasing the cost to corporation 3. Corporation 3 is now buying it at$9 per unit and has to pay the employee $1.50, to maintain margin it now sells this item at$15

In this example : a 50% increase hits all across the board. Different numbers will yield different results (based on markups etc... ) but essentially this is the minimum increase. By increasing wage, you have NOT helped anyone, you have put them in the same position they were before, only created inflation on the entire system.

Contrary to what you want to think, Companies do not exist to pay people, they exist to make the owner money.

5. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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You are rather ignorant of the whole picture. If people don't have money, they cannot afford to buy as many products. A minimum wage is necessary to ensure a viable consumer base, without which there is no economy at all.

7. ### siphraRegistered Senior Member

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Wow, thanks for the derp, now if you would care to contribute, or here let me rephrase it, you are obviously ignorant of how an economy works and what contributes to its success, what contributes to its inflation and in general every other aspect of economics. FTR the whole picture is how I make a living, finding cheaper way to mass produce goods so that more people can obtain them and increasing shareholder income at the same time, you should try it some time, it's like working miracles in some cases.

8. ### CptBorkRobbing the Shalebridge CradleValued Senior Member

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The cheapest avenue for corporate profit is to import lots of illegal immigrants and let the working classes who live by their sides deal with whatever social problems might ensue, and that's exactly what's being done in the US at this very moment. An enforced minimum wage, which will still constitute a pittance compared to the remaining corporate expenses, would be an effective way to stop companies from hiring illegals, thus drying up their reasons to cut ahead in line and slip across American borders.

9. ### siphraRegistered Senior Member

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Fail, it is enforced, the big problem with illegals is they aren't being paid minimum and don't care to report it because it is still more than they would make back home. But in addition to that not all of them are fleeing across the border illegally for just work, given that the Mexican government is loosing the civil war going on down there, they are mostly refugees.

10. ### quadraphonicsBloodthirsty BarbarianValued Senior Member

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Not really - the vast majority of illegal immigrants get work by obtaining fake SS numbers, and applying as if they were regular citizens. Employers then go along with this - if they were to pay them under the table, at below minimum wage, they'd quickly be caught and have no excuse. Instead, they pretend that they thought they were legal, and pay them the same as anyone.

There are some who work under-the-table and get paid who-knows-what, but my guess is that it actually works out to a higher wage than minimum wage, once you factor in the tax evasion.

Yeah, not really.

11. ### CptBorkRobbing the Shalebridge CradleValued Senior Member

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That means it's not being properly enforced, so Fail indeed. It also needs to be sufficient to meet the basic cost of living- anyone who can hold down a fulltime job, even if it's just floor sweeping and burger flipping, should be making enough money to finance a basic dignified American existence without any further assistance. The argument against a reasonable minimum wage seems to be "Mexican immigrants don't mind living in slums, so why should we raise wages for anyone else?"

Note: As far as enforcing these things, I'd prefer if society itself could take care of these problems directly instead of government. If a company is exploiting cheap labour, workers at the local power and water plants should go on strike until those plants cut off service to such companies, construction workers should collectively refuse to do maintenance on infrastructure used by exploitative companies, widescale collective boycotts should be practiced by consumers against greedy tax dodgers who undermine their future ability to afford consumption, etc. Then the government would only need to step in to enforce laws against employing illegal immigrants, so companies can't undermine a worker strike by trucking in millions of uneducated foreigners.

Last edited: Apr 1, 2011