# Church will burn Quran

Discussion in 'World Events' started by baftan, Aug 1, 2010.

1. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

Messages:
30,505
Yep. As you will find out if you try to hold your keg party in my back yard. It's like not believing in speed limits - you still get the ticket.
What does sacred have to do with ownership?
True of all societal establishments, customs, rules, and institutions. Religion a particularly fine example.

Brings up an issue in this: what if a bunch of people just don't get it? How much allowance must reasonable people make for those who simply don't know what's going on?

3. ### StrawDogdisseminated primatemaiaValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,373
Yes.
Lets nip this in the bud. If Bush & Co and complicit Corporate Media did not execute such a terrific propaganda job of stereotyping criminal acts with Islam, via "The War on Terror", and thus creating the perception that each and every Muslim is a terrorist, uneducated idiot preachers would not be equating the criminal act of 9/11 with Islam and burning the Quran.
Underlying all of this is the universal endemic ignorance born of blind faith in G_d, the Media and Government. :m:

5. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
This poster SAM seems like a good, intelligent debater, but he/she will not reach an epiphany on the matter any time soon, I fear.

I would follow up on your (iceaura) comments but I would simply be repeating what's already been said by me, you and many other posters in this thread. Unfortunately SAM's neural pathways will continue to restrict the thought processes we use to come up with our points-of-view.

This is assuming SAM is an older person, of course. If SAM is young (20s) where brain plasticity is still high, then perhaps that connection can still be made.

7. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
You reply in agreement yet have nothing further to say on the matter - even though it's quite important.

The fact that the religious proclaim immunity from offense, and if offended, use it as justification for, often times, physical retaliation against either property or people, and that this is not somehow seen as the main concern here is incomprehensible to me.

This is a rather discombobulating and misleading point you're making here. You are making the assumption that Pastor Terry Jones was strictly acting as he did as the result of how "Bush & Co" portrayed Islam. This is information you cannot know. Mr Jones could have had a deeply rooted hatred for the general intolerance of Islam. For honor killings. Female genital mutilation. Stoning policies in Iran (which is definitely an emergent property of Islam). And the list goes on.

I'm just saying, you cannot trivialise and categorize as you have just done so that it fits your argument.

What if thought most Muslims were moderate and peaceful people, yet I disagreed with just one single line of text in the Qur'an and decided that was enough to make me want to burn the book to personally show my disgust? Would that make the situation any different in terms of how the Islamic world would view my peaceful protest?

Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
8. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106
You said:

This gave me the impression that a religion can't have a right unless that same right is shared by all religions.

9. ### GeoffPCaput gerat lupinumValued Senior Member

Messages:
22,087
And the problem with that is what, in this specific case or generally?

10. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106

The Quran is not a symbol it's holy, the issue is that it's forbidden to burn this sacred text.

11. ### ZephyrHumans are ONERegistered Senior Member

Messages:
3,371
But if SAM doesn't believe in ownership, we can still hold the keg party in her backyard! And then borrow her car for the demolition derby.

Forbidden for Muslims maybe, like eating pork. That doesn't mean other people can't do it.

12. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
Exactly my point. Deeming anything as "sacred", and therefore untouchable in terms of offense is the initial problem.

The reason for this is that this sort of system of thought cannot be self-sustaining. What if a group of people one day decided to proclaim trees as their sacred object? Does that mean the rest of the world should take extra care as to not offend them? Where does it stop?

Anything can be deemed sacred and therefore strictly untouchable or an act as strictly unallowable by the people who proclaim it to be so. This just cannot be.

13. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106

What you're saying is very strange to me and confusing if no one should even walk over it then burning it is a really get sin as that equates to challenging God over what He said, it can't only be about taharat or cleanness. If this is the case there should have been no commotion over the burning of Quran by the pastor. To dispose of an old worn down Quran I said that the text should be washed clean off I didn't say anything about filthy water.

14. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106

I didn't issue a ruling over whether people can't do it or not I said it is forbidden to burn it nothing more.

15. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106

Common sense should help in this case as it's obviously not possible for us to deem all trees as sacred.

16. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
To deem anything as holy or sacred - in other words: untouchable, unchangeable, unalterable doctrines is very similar to totalitarianism.

Just one of many reasons why religion is a poison in this world.

17. ### ZephyrHumans are ONERegistered Senior Member

Messages:
3,371
That means nothing.

18. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106
To deem something as holy doesn't equate it with God.

19. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
Common sense, you say? Since when and where is it written that it is a requirement to use common sense when deeming something sacred or holy?

Is that how "holy" things come about? After people sit around and think about what would be best as to not make it something that could be impinged upon too often by the majority of people?

C'mon.

20. ### mercaptanDas Feuer liebt michRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
113
This statement as no implication whatsoever on this topic. Since everything is manifested by "reason", as you say, so are the actions by Pastor Terry Jones, no matter his motivations. And similarly so are the reactions by the faithful who were offended. Hence everything cancels out...

21. ### Big ChillerRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,106
Yes, you're right since you've not understood at all what I said also that I went off-topic.

22. ### StrawDogdisseminated primatemaiaValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,373
This idiot made it clear he considered Muslims and the Islamic faith responsible for 9/11. Thus the intended commemoration via Quran burning antics. How do you suppose he formed that idea? Pravda?

23. ### ZephyrHumans are ONERegistered Senior Member

Messages:
3,371
"INCONCEIVABLE!"
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."