Christians - Your Testimonies Please

Ok you win! Whatever it is!! You scare me a bit. I am not sure what I am supposed to be defending! I didnt come here to defend anything. If I have misunderstood something about the purpose of these forums then I am sorry too. I didnt mean any harm and I am not sure why you need to be aggressive about what I have written. If you can actually see anywhere where I said - Hey Folks, You All Need God Now! YEah Jesus Yeah! Christianity Rocks ! YEah Jesus YEah! then I will apologize for being a dick.
If I just chatted my stuff in the hope that people may wanna discuss there story or comment on mine, ask questions ya know??? I clearly wasnt prepared for agression. If thats the lesson I take away from this thas

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I am sorry - I guess I didnt get the bit about free speech.

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peace

c20 :m:

 

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Neildo,

Pretty close, although I am not sure he was deliberately lying, exaggeration and confused is the more accurate description.

And I do find such stories sickening and since gods do not exist then he must be delusional.

Same reason as above.

My well considered observations of Christianity.

Such dramatic testimonies never stand up to close scrutiny and the conversion process is usually very emotionally charged, and the claim to hearing a voice has no credibility.

I’ve just heard so many such stories that I see no point any longer to probing them carefully and politely – they are simply bunk. And I hope C20 will eventually come to the same conclusion in the near future - the sooner the better for the sake of his mental health.

I make no apology for my aggressive stance on this.

Kat

 

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Hiya C20,

First off I wish to thank you for sharing your testimony, it is a experience I personally can relate to and fully believe, isn't it amazing?

sciforums generally doesn't promote this type of topic due to the huge amount of atheists out there, but personally I think it is better posting your experience here then at christianty.com, I think some people here aren't robots(Maybe a few Atheist robots, who I won't name).

Thanks again.

Dave

 

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C20,

Ahh nuts. I really was trying to target the whole Christian testimony thing and it is difficult to separate the originator from the generic issue.

Don’t be put off by my approach today – I have been debating such things for a very long time and for most of that time I have been meek, mild and polite. There are times though when I find the issues so frustratingly irrational that I explode. You were simply caught in the shock wave.

What I look for is some objectivity in any testimony and factual evidence – you had none. I faced many similar experiences when I was much younger, but I am highly analytical and all attempts to convert me in the way you describe simple backfired on my instigators.

Keep asking questions about what you think you have achieved – what independent verification can you discover? Human emotions can be very deceptive.

Please take care
Respectfully
Kat

 

Hiya Kat,

What emotion did you feel when you first read this thread? What triggered your response?

Take care

Dave

 

Lol. I started off with nothing to defend and now I find myself defending my mental health.

Look lets look at this intelligently ..

You say...

And I do find such stories sickening and since gods do not exist then he must be delusional.

Ok. You find such stories sickening. Unlucky.

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I cant predict a readers reactions.
"Since Gods do not exist" - Ok thats your point of view. Fairy nuff. I get that bit. You are a person who thinks that Gods and Devils is all bunkem. Fine no probs! I U _ N _ D _ E _ R _ S _ T _ A _ N _ D

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"he must be delusional." - You are claiming to have studied to be a psychiatrist by declaring that I 'must' be delusional. Exactly what professional qualifications do you have to make that very damning diagnosis?
You also claim that I am a liar. How the hell am I supposed to have a dialetical discussion with someone who from the outset is calling me a liar????
How can i prove anything in two dimensional space? In text? You are requiring evidence of me but are providing no vehicle by which I may present evidence? I have never said I have evidence. I have only stated what is true for me.
You fail to quote the more poignant statements in my posts - stuff like ' If i came on here shouting Jesus Yeah! You all need Jesus Yeah! ....' because you know that the spirit in which they are written exposes you to other readers. I am not a bad delusional person who is mentally unstable. I am someone who experienced something pretty cool and its helped me in my life. You dont believe it. So what?

 

peace

no worries

c20 :m:

 

I think people are cool. i dont get to upset. Stretches the brain ya know

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Me Too

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Dave

 

“Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails…” The Apostle Paul

 

Here is the testimony of my Dad's healing. He is well to this day.

On a Sunday morning in the month of December, 1955, my wife, Esther, and I were getting us and our year-old son, Kevin, ready to go to church. Suddenly, with no warning, something happened that was to drastically change my life for several months to follow. And, at the end of that period another event, also unexpected but hoped for, brought an even more drastic change into my life for all the years that have followed.

As I was walking down the hallway toward our bathroom on that Sunday morning, I suddenly sneezed and instantly felt an excruciating pain in my left hip. The pain was so intense that I was unable to stand up straight. I did not know exactly what had happened to my body, but I knew that it was not good-one moment I was fine; the next I had a bad problem.

For several days after the incident Esther and I tried to figure out what had happened and what to do about it. Would the injury (whatever it was) go away by itself? Should I see my doctor about it? I prayed and Esther prayed that the Lord would see fit to deliver me from my suffering. We also asked others to pray for us. Adding to our concern for my condition was the fact that Esther was four months pregnant with our second child.

The days went by and the pain didn't get any better. It was with me day and night. I walked bent over, unable to stand up straight. My doctor gave me some medicine, which he hoped would relieve the pain. It didn't. On January 3, 1956, I made an appointment to see an osteopath, a kindly, elderly gentleman named Dr. H. E. Eustace.

Dr. Eustace told me that apparently when I had that big sneeze back in December, I was off balance and the force of the sneeze had caused injury to my sacroiliac joint. He explained that, since I had gone a couple of weeks or more without treatment, the ligaments which hold the sacrum and ilium together in the pelvis area had been badly stretched and that pressure had been put on my sciatic nerve. That explained the severe pain I was feeling along the back of my thigh and down my leg.

Dr. Eustace's treatment, stretching the leg with traction, put the sacrum and ilium back in place and for the first time in many days, my pain was gone. I could once again stand up straight. He told me I would have to be very careful as I moved around, especially getting in and out of a car, or it could come out of place again. He said I should put a board under our mattress so that I would have a very firm bed to sleep on. I followed his instructions to the letter.

I continued seeing Dr. Eustace for physical therapy treatments: 8 in January, 10 in February, 10 in March and 6 in April. However, it soon became obvious that something was not going right. The ligaments had been stretched so badly that they would not hold the joint in place very long. Some days I would leave the doctor's office feeling fine, get in my car and drive, but before I got home, the bones would slip out of place and the pain would return.

In an attempt to deal with the problem, after Dr. Eustace put the joint in place, he would put a large, wide belt around my hips and cinch it up very tight. That helped, but only for a short time. And even with a board under my mattress, the bed was still too soft. He suggested that I should begin sleeping on the floor to increase the firmness under me (trying to sleep, that is). I followed his suggestion and moved into the living room with a cotton twin-size mattress the doctor loaned me for my bed.

The condition got so bad that Dr. Eustace loaned me one of his special belts and showed me how to put myself back in place at home. But it got even worse. At night I would lie down on the lightweight, cotton mattress on the floor in our living room, put the bones back in place with the belt and sleep on my back all night, trying not to move. In the morning, I would carefully turn over on my right side and try to stand up. The joint would slip apart.

By now, we were into the month of May-nearly 20 weeks since my accident. To add to our anxiety, our baby was due to be born the first week of that month.. The joy of that coming event was intermixed with our increasing concern for my own medical problem.

One evening, Dr. Eustace came out to our home to save me from driving to his office. (Visiting patients at their home was not a common practice by doctors.) He brought along his brother, also an osteopath, who was visiting him for a few days at that time. They examined me and discussed my case. Dr. Eustace said that we had two options left: one, have a surgeon put a pin in the joint to hold the two bones together (this would cause my back to be permanently stiff), or two, try an injection of a certain fluid into the ligaments hoping to cause them to swell and tighten up, thereby holding the bones in place.

At the end of their visit, I was lying on the living room floor, afraid to move. Dr. Eustace knelt down and put the joint back in place again. Then he and his brother left, leaving both Esther and I so frustrated that we were both crying as the two doctors walked out the front door. We knew that Dr. Eustace really cared about us, but he was definitely frustrated too. By that time it was about 10.00 p.m.

I remained on the floor on my back, not daring to move. Esther got ready for bed, came into the living room, knelt down at my side and prayed for me, pouring her heart out to God for help. We both knew for sure that God was our last and only source of help. Outside of Him there was no help-no solution with which we wanted to live. We were desperate!

I don't remember sleeping. Sometime in the middle of the night, I began to realize that something very unusual was happening in my body. It has never been possible for me to describe it to my own satisfaction to another person. It was like nothing else I have ever experienced in my life.

This is my best explanation: Slowly, gently, but firmly, I felt warm fingers, as it were, moving down my back and across the area of my injury. It was not a pressing or a kneading feeling. It was not forceful or rough. I remember thinking, "What is happening to me?" Because this was all so gentle, my mind was not alarmed or troubled. On the contrary, I felt a growing acceptance and peace. Whatever this was, I somehow knew that something wonderful was happening.

I don't know how much time went by during this experience. When it was over, I remained on my back, not moving for a long time, still awake, thinking about what had just happened and trying to figure it out. One thing I knew for sure, it was a supernatural experience. It was something outside of myself. And although I felt gentleness and warmth, I also sensed the application of power.

Gradually, I came to the conviction that I had been touched by the Holy Spirit. Why should I be surprised by that possibility? Why should I have any difficulty coming to that conclusion? It is what we had prayed for, over and over again.

I could hardly wait for Esther to wake up so that I could share this experience with her. When she looked into the living room to check on me (it was still dark outside), I said, in tears, "I believe God has healed me."

"Tell me what happened," she said. And, so I did with great joy. She said that every time she woke up during the night (which was often because of her pregnancy) she would kneel by the side of the bed and pray. We both believed that our loving Savior had heard and answered our prayers.

I was anxious to find out for certain that I really was healed, so I decided to turn over and stand up, hoping that the joint would stay in place. I stood up. It stayed in place. I walked around the house. It stayed in place. All through the day I increased my activities with joy and thanksgiving to the Lord. It stayed in place. There was no pain. Without a doubt, the Lord had healed me.

From that day to this-for nearly half a century-my sacroiliac has never gone out of place, ever. It was a MIRACLE from GOD. There could be no other explanation.

By the way, a few days later, Esther gave birth to a 7 pound 4 ounce baby girl named Mary Ann. She was two weeks late in coming. God's timing was perfect and our joy was complete.

 

For the record, my issue is not and never has been that people disagree with my Christian views. I have friends of every major religion and non-religious as well.

My issue is that certain non-Christians believe that their beliefs somehow trump ours and is therefore a license to be as rude and demeaning as possible when such behavior would not be tolerated when directed at any other group. If Katazia is incapable of expressing a thought without being insulting it is not my failing, however I see no reason not to speak up for myself. I have attempted to be very respectful to those whose beliefs I do not consider valid.

 

Thanks for sharing

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It is so hard to put into words that 'touch'.
peace

c20 :m:

 

to the critics

underneath the window dressing lies a personal spiritual experience. it would be wise as well as good mannered to afford the topic poster the legitimacy of this experience.

attempting to dispute the experience with mere conjecture and anecdotes of your own is hardy the way to go.

alternatively, you all could, simply fuck off

 

Hathor,

It is not the experience that I dispute but the claim for the cause that I find objectionable and unjustifiable. To remain silent is to infer acknowledgement and legitimacy to the claim as well as the experience, and that is not acceptable.

To state and describe a deep personal and emotional experience is fine but once that then proceeds to “and God did it” then we are in questionable territory and is essentially proselytizing which is highly objectionable, whether intended or not.

Kat

 

Paula,

That’s fine and I also have close friends who are Christian.

There is perhaps a fine line between factual accuracy and an insult. Someone with an uninformed perspective or irrational criteria will possibly see factual statements as seriously insulting – in which case is there an insult or not.

My comments in this thread, and note I take different approaches elsewhere, comprised primarily of the terms – sickening, fantasies, and delusions. The term sickening described my feelings of certain religious activities, so I’m not sure that you should feel insulted by the way I feel. “Fantasies” refers to all religious beliefs since none have any factual basis or proofs. You can claim this is an insult when you can prove that a god exists, until then religious claims are indistinguishable from fantasy. And “delusions” is the most likely cause for many religious claims where someone claims to see or hear something that doesn’t exist. How else would you describe someone who thinks imaginary objects are real?

I have made no insults but have pointed out harsh truths about religious beliefs, and have presented these truths in an aggressive manner to stir up emotions and debate, to which I have amply succeeded.

And would you be respectful to a rapist about to molest you because he believes that every woman should be raped. At what point does tolerance for others’ beliefs stop and aggressive defense kick in?

I do not see any strong incentive for me to be tolerant of religious ideologies and claims that I believe are a serious threat to the future of mankind and to me personally. I make a distinction between being tolerant of harmless ideas and those where we need to take responsibility and fight against and defeat.

Kat

 

KAT

very well. carry on then

That’s fine and I also have close friends who are Christian

i suggest you strike now. do it before it is too late

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I believe are a serious threat to the future of mankind and to me personally

be honest kat. is it trauma or rational thought that has brought you to this point. can you understand if i note a certain amount of fanaticism in your outlook

 

In the clear light of day, I think I understand Kat's 'perspective' better.
Like I say I wasnt prepared for 'aggression' but thats not to say that 'agression' is not the correct response for Kat. She has a right to debate the point from a 'fighting' stand point. Apologies for not understanding that fully earlier.

I think this is the discussion...

Kat's stance is justified because she believes that mankind may be in danger if people keep preaching something that Kat 'believes' is a lie. Kat has only ever witnessed 'Christianity' as being a bad thing and wants to attack the stereotypical 'bad drug head finds jesus and all is cool' stories because they are deluded and dont 'realise' the harm they are doing. The testimonies cannot be supported by any evidence and you only have to look around the world today to see all the trouble that 'Religion' causes.

Do you agree with Kat? If so get behind her!

For the sake of interesting debate ( cos this is where the fun is I guess - play along with me people

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) I will adopt the stance that by damning these stories she is in effect wishing ill on mankind and has been deceived herself. I will try and convince her that Man needs to fellowship with God in order for that man to be saved.

If you want to help Kat and her cronies see that Jesus is not synonymous with Religous hypocrisy but is synonymous with eternal life and salvation, dont forget to say your bit

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If we debate this professionally I am happy. I kinda walked into it blind before not being familiar with the general 'tone' and purpose of these forums to the majority.

Are you ok with this Kat?

 

C20, what exactly makes Jesus differant from religion? Perhaps you could explain.

 

Hathor,

Are you sure you want to pursue that avenue?

From Webster: Fanatic - marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.

That pretty much accurately describes all active Christians, right?

But can you formulate an argument that attacks the issues rather than me personally? So far I have made no personal abusive attacks.

Kat