christianity is for the weak at mind

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No. the crusades were cuased by christians wanting to convert muslims. The old testament sluaghters was supposibly ordered by the jews god. the isreal-palestine conflict is cuased by a there diffrent beleifs in god. The japanese felt that there emperor was god so they had the right to own the pacific. the catholic-protestant is cuased by a diffrence in opinion on the same religon. all boil down to god.

 

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The Crusades were the RCC's war against all other pagan religions; a power-based motivation.
The Israel-Palestine wars were caused by various reasons some of which weren't religious at all (however a number of clashes were indeed theology based)
WW2 was catalyzed by a power hungry christian despot who also believed in aryan supremacy.

What caused these wars was not any form of superior being since by definition any such being can solve conflicts without violence despite having the power to do so. However some wars were caused theists of varying flavors believing in their own "ideals" to the point of fanaticism. These folks were unwilling to countenance any other opinions so sought to wipe them out.

That aside, strength of mind isn't a function of religion. Strength of mind is derived from 'faith' in ONESELF rather than any external factors. Whatever that individual believes is further bolstered by this state.

Christianity (or religion on the whole) only seems to be for the weak of mind because of the recruitment targets that those with the STRONG minds select :bugeye:

 

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I agree with u, there has been more bloodshed in the name of god then anything else. but ur wrong about it being a result of god. the only wars that were fought because of god were in the ot and that i say loosely cause i don't know the ot that well so don't quote me. All the ones you mentioned were wars that were fought and still being fought as a result of man using gods name to start a war for political gain. there is a difference. Most of those wars (if not all) you mentioned involve christians, which the funny thing is, their own belief teaches against violence. I believe in christianity and i'm baffeled as to why another christian can't see that they or their family or friends are dying for a gov who are using the belief for political gain.

 

That's what makes atheism great

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Knowing everyday that I'm going to learn something new, valuing every single day I have (at least in retrospect). And you don't have to agree with me but I think you contradict yourself when you say that "Atheism is the sign of a small mind and smaller heart", then follow it up by saying the above.

I myself can imagine a being of infinite love, and that's why I don't believe in the Christian god, or any other god that exists within humanity's many religions. Any example from within a religious text basically disproves the notion that it represents a being of infinite love. The fact that hell is supposed to exist is alone enough to contradict that supposition.

Ultimately you can believe what you like, and you can insult me. As you have done with your blanket statement. But you must at least see why I think generally religious people have smaller minds than atheists, because they don't believe in so many things.

And I guess for the sake of precluding another argument, this is not faith based belief I'm talking about. Religious people limit their beliefs because of a faith based belief that does little to explain anything. Atheists have no restrictions on what they believe. It is really a sweet thing

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I agree LV. Some people support their prejudices by portraying others as weak, stupid or evil (e.g. the Nazis portrayal of the Jews). It is the hallmark of bigotry.

From the posts on this forum, it is not just theists who would be devastated to be proved wrong! Wouldn't it be better to try to understand the reasons and assumptions underlying your own, and the opposite viewpoint... rather than simply caricature those who disagree with you as "weak"? Is that too threatening to your own view!?

 

Religious belief itself is a choice, it's not restrictive unless you let yourself be restricted by it. Atheists who confine themselves to materialist goals, values and explanations would find themselves similarly restricted.

 

to add to this thread's over all note: Organized Religion is for the weak of mind, but even the strong minded can get sucked into the lies. (IE Mormonism)

I'm starting a new organized religion and my only docterine will be:

Believe what you want! But whatever you do, DON'T LET RELIGIOUS (mystical non-fact-backed-fiat) DIFFERENCES CAUSE YOU TO KILL EACHOTHER OR BECOME UN-UNIFIED

 

Yes that is true, but I also stand by what I say. Many of my religious friends preclude even considering some of the ideas I bring up. It is simply a matter that they don't think about them because, for instance, god created man, therefore the point in studying evolution is moot. I admit that I am making a blanket generalisation, but I think it sets parameters on what people believe, and it therefore limits them. My opinion, disagree if you will.

By materialist goals/values are you meaning actual materialism? There was a thread a little while back that debated two forms of materialism. If you do in fact mean materialism, I find it interesting that America, being one of the most religious nations in the world, is also the most materialistically goal oriented and value driven. What does that say? I don't know, I'd need to think about it more first. I myself find little solace in buying crap that I don't need.

As for materialist explanations, I'll take what I can get, but part of my beliefs is knowing that I can't know everything. Science after all cannot give us all the answers, and by nature it would be impossible to know everything anyway. However, I will not use 'god' as a stop gap to explain anything. Mystery, accepting that you can't know/don't know something, that's good stuff.

 

Many skeptics think that Christianity is for people who do not want to think. Christians are often characterized as people who believe whatever they are told by the church. Faith is thought of as something that one believes blindly - with no supporting evidence. However, this viewpoint does not represent biblical Christianity. In contrast, to what many skeptics believe, the Bible challenges its readers to test it and come to a reasonable conclusion. There are those Christians who believe blindly, and certain cults (such as Mormonism) teach that truth can be known through prayer. These ideas are heretical to biblical Christianity and often lead to deception, making such individuals susceptible to conversion by the cults.

 

I have to agree up to a point SD - many prominent doctrinal religions discourage honest rational inquiry which would threaten their dogmatic beliefs. Creationism is a case in point! All religions then get tarred with the same brush, yet there are many very undogmatic ones e.g. Quakers, Unitarians, most Buddhists, Taoists etc. My plea would be to not to lump them all together.

I'm probably stretching the strict philosophical definition of materialism (as in physicalism) into meaning also "pursuit of material values". You raise an interesting connection between that and religion in the US, which I cannot answer - are they one and the same populations?

I also agree that we don't need God to be pushing the universe along - for me God is in the realm of human experience, not a scientific explanation.

 

Surely, you must realize how sadly mistaken that statement is?

I've asked repeatedly of cool skill, Illuminatingtherapy, and others to raise a simple concept of theism to discuss rationally, and no theist ever steps up.

So ggazoo, why don't you or some other xians/theists pick a bible topic to be tested and reasonably concluded upon and start a thread? Why are all of the theists so afraid of this???

 

Funny how if that "reasonable conclusion" doesn't fit some charismatic ideologue's soteriology then you're going to hell.

Oopsie!

 

Many societies became Christian for political reasons, notably the Vikings, not known for being weak. They became whatever their king was.

 

Heretic said:

And some scientists and philosophers claim that order comes from disorder (chaos). Chaos is supposed to be the catalist, so they say.

 

i am jewish, and i am not afraid.
however, i find this forum to be a very infertile ground for impartial discussion.
if you want to discuss via messenger, and repost the text, that would be fine with me.

my messenger addresses are located in my profile.

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i am looking forward to a rich and colorful dialogue!

 

Indeed, I should stop using religion as my generic term for Christianity. I am determined in part by what I have been exposed to.

With a little reflection I think it's got to do with the national myth, the American Dream- Manifest Destiny- combined with extreme individualisation and the cultivation of homogenous signifiers of status in material possessions. Definitely something worth thinking about further though.

 

I agree SD - Benjamin Franklin's "God helps those who help themselves" seems to conflate material ambition with religion. I also think that the involvement of church in politics (e.g. the religious right block vote) has something to do with it. Is it the ultimate irony that Jesus has become a significant pawn in George Ws election campaign!?

 

Because there's no point. In order to debate something like that I would use the Bible as grounds for my argument... grounds that you've already refuted to begin with, so it would an excersice in futility.

 

Purely out of interest, what value do you think a bunch of stories written by ancient shepherds has when it comes down to reality?