China: "Secret prisons & Torture now Synonymous with the USA"

Originally posted by Asguard:

The U.S. may torture terrorists and caused civilan deaths by invading Iraq, but the comparisons between the two are limited.

Big difference between that and running your OWN people over with tanks when they protest.
Chinese critique of American politicians "munipulation" of the press I find most amusing. They do not even have an independent press from the government.
America and other nations must critique China's behavior because the major differences between the two countries is this:
A) Americans are free to criticize its government, both in the press and indenpendently. They also choose their government, and have a say in political matters.
b) Chinese restrict freedom of speech on a regular basis, by both media and internet, as well as dictate political and economic policy to its people. If a particular group becomes to loud or inconvenient, they are either persecuted or arrested.
China is dangerous and must change because it is becoming a powerhouse in global politics. Its people really have no say it how its government behaves, and the atrocities they could commit worldwide could be endless.
If Americans do not like their government policies they begin to protest and force a change. This is what puts restrictions on just how far the U.S. governement can go in Iraq, or how much they can abuse Iraq's people. The American public can only stand so much, and eventually place restrictions.
Now picture the Chinese involved in the same scenario. Its people would have absolutely no idea what is going on, because they have no access to any true press, and even if they knew, can do nothing about it. Protests end in being run over by tanks. What would prevent China from destroying another country in order to take over its resources if it becomes to powerful for the international community to stop it? Certainly not its own people. This is why, Asguard, though the United States must continue to critique China and make it change, though imperfect the U.S. may be. If they do not do it now, China could be a monster later.
In other words, if you think U.S. international behavior is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet, when an politically unchanged China takes the reigns.

 

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towards go back and have a look at some of the legislation that has recently passed. If put into full effect you will be BEGGING to live under the chinese for being such a free sociaty.

Yes currently china abuses her people and the US abuses OTHER people but that looks to be about to change

 

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I am well aware of legislation that passes, and I have no clue what you refer to. I am sure two hundred years of American rights must be at stake.

If you cannot see the difference between the rights of the Chinese and that of Americans, then you are simply fooling yourself.

As China begins to become a world power, and it requires the resources to keep it going, it will change from an isolationist nation into a colonial one. Its leaders cannot afford to let their economic engine to falter, or they risk a political uprising. You will be surprised what they eventually will do in order to keep the economy rolling. It is a matter of time.

 

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Will the Chinese throw nuclear bombs on civilians to endorse their power? Support oppressive dictators? Run a School of torture for death squads? Destroy a few countries by bombing civilians in the name of communism and liberty, or against a particular religious belief?

The bar is set pretty high for them, I would think.

 

try the homeland security and patriousm acts to start with as well as the wire tapping act

 

Sam, The chinese supported the government of Darfur with oil money, and hence supported the dictators there. Wasn't Tibet suppressed due to a different belief ?

But yeah, Very high bar to achieve there. They just had to kill a few thousand of their own people first.

 

Darfur is just another legacy of western colonialism. Somehow the Chinese have been left holding the baby

Now compare it to US policy in Darfur.

US abandons Chad embassy, warns Sudan on support for rebels

which follows:

US Backs Former Sudan Rebels’ Transformation into Professional Army


which follows this:

Destabilizing Sudan: US Weapons for SPLA Freedom Fighters

and this:
Mounting evidence of US destabilisation of Sudan

Look closely and its another story altogether:

Because everything ultimately is about exploitation

They have also been playing their own games in the region

The Chinese on the other hand are taking the long view.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...es/2007/07/23/chinas_delicate_role_on_darfur/

The Chinese ideas are not revolutionary, they are pretty much classic economic reform. The difference is that the Chinese are actually implementing them, they are actually building the roads, the bridges, the dams, the health clinics, the schools, things you can see and touch and which directly impact the quality of life. Western economic policies in the region, through the IMF mostly, are based on abstract models and concepts which require the Africans to privatize privatize privatize. So basically they just lecture the poor instead of helping the Africans to invest in their own development. The world bank also pushed for privatisation of national health systems, water utilities, and road and power networks, and grossly underfinanced these critical sectors.



Which method do you think is better for Sudan?

 

Depends on how you look at it. While I disagree with the Chinese occupation, I'm not shedding any tears at what they replaced.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7355

 

I see what you mean, however, It's a long way from helping Sudan out of pure altruism. (no country is altruistic), In bangladesh, Japan and China did the same thing, with bridges and factories.. I still have to find out what we did in return.

 

YES

Except for the use of atomic weapons they have done everything else, and once they change the flow of the Brahmaputra, and a few other rivers for its own needs, the Mushrooms will Glow.

 

Lets look at americans in the past few years and look at the chinese.

-White folks came to America and bought their black slaves and killed millions of indigenous people and destroyed their culture completely.
-Americans along with Europeans invade China and loot it and murder millions of Chinese in the 19th century.
-Americans and other Europeans steal land from China and treat Chinese like dogs in their own country.
-Americans go to war and nuke Japan then decide to help many dictators around the world such as saddam hussein and the mujahideen with power weapons such as chemical weapons which were mainly used on innocent civilians.
-Americans cause the deaths of over 10million civilians not including soldiers in korean war and the Vietnam war. If america did not interrupt, the wars would have finished within a few weeks.
-America general douglas mcarthur threaten to nuke china back to the stone age before china had nukes.
-America shows great support for japan which killed and raped over 25million chinese.
-America trains insurgent groups of Tibetans to wage war on China.
-America supports India in the border war.
-America wants to split up China.
-America purposely surrounds China with Japan to the East, Taiwan to the South and India to the west.

What has China done to America? Lets see here.
-Hmmm confronted America in the korean war to prevent from being overun by the Americans if NK falls.
-After Vietnamese war, China switched sides and wanted better relationship with America. China invaded and destroyed the Vietnamese threat.
-China doesn't try to split up America
-China doesn't continuously provoke or fight wars anywhere near America or Europe whereas America fought wars against China right on chinese doorstep.
-Thats simply about it.

Americans are aggresors and have indirectly caused the deaths of more foreigners then any other country. Shame America still pretends to be a saint.

 

Americans threw TWO nuclear bombs at civlian Cities. China has a non first strike nuclear policy.

America support the Mujahideen and saddam hussein. Gave Saddam chemical weapons to use on civilians. China has never done this.

America run many death squads and torture chambers as we all know. The Cia has many torture chambers all over the world and trains insurgents with one goal in mind and that is to kill as many government troops as they can. E.g CIA training Tibetan monks to be soldiers.

America wiped out the native americans and destroyed more countries then any other country in the world. Lets not talk about the many smaller countries around the world america has destroyed through support and direct financing but lets look at how America dragged the korean war into a three year bloodbath and tried to invade china from korea, How about basically the total destruction of Vietnam and millions of dead civilians? What about iraq? Its a hole now whereas before it was one of the most powerful countries in the middle east? Americans think they are liberators and good people but they are just as bad as any dictator. Their answer to anyone who isn't like them is to kill them or change them.

 

Aggressors- you spelled it wrong.

Well then you are indirectly responsible for everyones death.

 

retaxis, why are you comparing everything with the USA?

1. USA is not the only country in the world.
2. Nothing, what is done by the USA, makes it ok for China to do likewise.

 

I think he's addressing the OP.

 

Hiroshima was a civillian city the same way Fort Knox is. There might have been civillians there, but the place was primarily a boot camp and was gearing up to start training every last Japanese person into a suicide soldier. Nagasaki was a critical military communications center and the site of what would have been Japan's "Manhattan Project."

Both were military targets and we did warn them that we would bomb them off the face of the map.

 

your kidding right?

 

Does any of the above justify throwing a nuclear bomb on a city?

If the situation were reversed, would you "understand" it the same way?

 

Actually yes and yes. All's fair in war if you give proper warning and target military installations.

In the case of Hiroshima then deaths of the people there literally saved an entire culture from commiting suicide during the ongoing invasion. At Nagasaki we managed to kill off many of the men who convinced the Emperor to start the war.

BTW, you will notice that Japan is our closest ally today.

 

Read Operation Ketsu Go, the Japanese were planing to do just that.

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/bookmarks/bk01/1108downfall.htm