Chat GPT makes some mistakes about the theory of relativity

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by TonyYuan, Jun 19, 2023.

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  1. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, GR was proposed many years later than SR. Do you mean that Einstein already knew GR when he proposed SR? This seems to have proved that Einstein also traveled through time. James R, you can win the Nobel Prize in Physics, your theory surpasses all human wisdom.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes.
    Reference frames have to be specified, obviously. They can be defined with reference to particular objects, if you like.
    You told me A and B started from Earth. If that's correct, then I agree with you.
    If we're going to compare their ages, yes. If they are the same age at the start (on Earth, in this case), then we need to know how they travelled to find their ages at some later time.
    Correct.
    Of course. If we have no idea where the unknown planet is or what it is doing, how could we possibly guarantee that A and B started off at the same age?
    The twin paradox starts off with twins of the same age on Earth. Twin A stays on Earth. Twin B makes a round-trip journey to a (known) distant planet. Twin A does not accelerate. Twin B accelerates three times: once when he leaves Earth, once when he turns around at the distant planet, and once when we arrives back at Earth (to slow down to a stop). Clearly, the accelerations are not symmetrical.

    Don't put words in my mouth, Tony. I have said nothing about any "elder brother". I have said nothing about any elder brother being younger. You shouldn't tell lies.
    From one point of view, that's true. From another, it is false.

    In what I just wrote above about the twin paradox, I assumed, for the sake of simplicity, that the Earth was not accelerating. That is the usual assumption in that hypothetical scenario. However, if you want to calculate for a more complex scenario, that is certainly possible.
    Correct.
    Any acceleration of the Earth, while one brother is journeying, will obviously affect the relative ages of the twins when they meet up again.
    Yes, Tony. I taught Einstein everything he knew. I was 700 years old, back then. Ah, those were the days, when I was younger! Being the modest guy I am, I let Einstein take all the credit for the theory of relativity.
    That's a secret, Tony.

    Is there anything else I can help you with?
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Did I say that he already knew GR when he proposed SR? No, I did not.

    Stop telling lies, Tony.
     
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  7. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, You should be very aware of the results of the twin paradox experiment. When the elder brother returns to the earth, the elder brother will appear younger than the younger brother. Is not it? Do you think I'm lying?
    Don't tell me that the younger brother insists on going to Korea for beauty every day.
    James R Velocity and acceleration both affect time dilation, does the direction of velocity affect the result of time dilation? Does the direction of acceleration affect the result of time dilation?
    A and B are of course the same young before departure (James R, you should be very clear about this premise, but you always like to make a fuss about this matter, I hope you will not be so "naughty" next time), and C observed A , B started at the same time.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes. That is correct.
    About that? No.
    What are you talking about?
    Tony, you keep asking more and more questions.

    Please acknowledge what I have already told you. Tell me: which parts do you accept as correct, and which parts do you think are wrong? If you think something I have told you is wrong, tell me why you think it is wrong.

    I'm not going to just keep responding to more and more random questions from you. If you're not going to put any effort into the conversation, I don't see why I should keep responding to you.

    I will answer your new questions once we have closed the book on your previous questions. Okay?
    Who is C? This is the first mention of C.

    From what you have said, your scenario has twins A and B who start at the same age on Earth. Then they do some kind of travelling that you still haven't specified.

    Is there some problem I can help you with? (Remember to respond to what I wrote previously, first. Then we can move on.)
     
  9. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, I consulted ChatGPT, the twin paradox experiment was proposed in 1950, and GR did exist in this period, so you are right, I have realized my mistake. This really does not prove that Einstein traveled through time like you. But James R has already told us that he traveled from the Middle Ages. Did SRT exist in the Middle Ages? James R, are you from England or France or Germany or Russia?
     
  10. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, we have proposed such a scenario in the previous discussion, A comes from the earth, and B comes from a planet X that James R is not familiar with. You ask me you have no way of knowing if B is as young as A, now I tell you they are as young before departure. So if there is no C, how do you know that A and B depart at the same time?
    James R, our discussion is contextual, and you don't seem to be able to connect our discussions. In this regard, GPT has done a very good job, and discussions with GPT will be smoother.
    The direction of velocity and acceleration, these are the most basic physical quantities, my questions are always around velocity and acceleration, if you are not able to give an answer, you can tell me directly, why do you want to cover up your incompetence?

    You can ask the chemist to help, he is very cute, I like this guy a lot.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Tony:
    You started the whole fantasy thing about me teaching Einstein and me being 800 years old. In doing that, you were trying to troll me and provoke an angry response from me. In response, I just ran with your silly fantasy.

    Of course, if you want to tell me that you're so stupid that you actually believe the fantasy you invented, I will adjust my expectations of you accordingly.

    I suggest you stop trying to be cute and stop trolling.
    Okay. How fast is planet X travelling, relative to Earth?

    In which reference frame are the twins, on their separate planets, of equal ages, at the start? Please note that unless planet X is stationary with respect to Earth, then A and B will not agree on their respective ages at the start of the journey. This is why we need the complete details of your scenario.
    A and B can depart at the same time in either A's frame of reference or B's frame of reference, if you like. You just need to completely specify the conditions of your scenario. This is what I asked you to do several posts ago, but you still haven't done it. Why haven't you done it?
    You've changed your mind and you now think chat GPT is good? Okay.

    So, is there anything else you want to discuss?
    I am not able to give you an answer. You have not yet fully specified the conditions of the scenario you asked me about. If you ever manage to complete that simple task, then perhaps I will be able to give you an answer.

    This isn't hard, Tony. Why are you struggling so much?

    And please don't try to project your own incompetence onto me. That's insulting.
    Stop trolling, Tony. I'm starting to get impatient with it.
     
  13. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    You keep emphasizing that I didn't give you the scene, which is also what I find weird.
    I have clearly told you that A and B are equally young. In order to allow A and B to start at the same time, I use C as the observer, but it seems that you have expressed great doubts about C.
    If you only need A and B without any other reference, then you will never be able to know the state of motion of A and B, nor can you know whether A and B are accelerating or decelerating.
    I have given you this premise: C observed that A and B are exactly the same young, and C observed that A and B left at the same time.
    I don't know what other information you need to confirm the age between A, B?
    You can give the constraints you think you need, and then we can discuss, the current scenario is very simple.
     
  14. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    It seems that the story of time travel is not interesting, although there are always people who claim to be from the future. Like that Russian boy.
     
  15. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, let me give you a simpler scenario:
    A and B are twins on the earth, they left the earth on the same day, and A and B were exactly the same young when they left.
    A and B have exactly the same acceleration and deceleration process, but A returns to the earth after reaching a speed of 0.1c. B maintains a constant speed after reaching 0.1c, and flies forward for another 10 ly, and then returns to the earth.
    May I ask, when A and B meet again on the earth, which one will be younger?

    James R, now A and B have exactly the same acceleration and deceleration process, the only difference is that B flies 20ly more than A at a constant speed. Do you still have questions about the scene I proposed now? If there is no doubt, please tell me when A and B meet, which one is younger?
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Tony:
    Is this the C you introduced in post #29? There, you said C is "at the place where A and B meet". Is that correct?

    Now:
    • Is the velocity of Earth zero in C's reference frame?
    • Is the velocity of Planet X zero in C's reference frame?
    • What speed does A accelerate to after leaving Earth? How long does that acceleration take, as measured by C?
    • How far is Earth from C?
    • What speed does B accelerate to after leaving planet X? How long does that acceleration take, as measured by C?
    • How far is planet X from C?
    • When A and B start their journeys towards C, are they the same age, as measured by C?
    We can know the velocity of A relative to B, and the acceleration of B relative to A, for instance. But in your scenario, you have introduced C, so let's go with that reference frame.
    They are the same age when they leave, as measured by C, and Earth and Planet X are both stationary relative to C?
    See above.
    I think that in this case they will be the same age when they meet up at the end.

    Do you agree? If not, please explain how you arrived at your answer.
    My answer is the same - they will be the same age when they meet up at the end, again.
     
  17. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    I am very surprised by your question! James R, are you okay?


    James R, that is to say, although B flew at a speed of 0.1c for 20 ly, it did not make B younger than A who was lying on the sofa watching TV after returning to the ground. But But But SRT tells us that when B is flying at 0.1c, B's time will expand and slow down. How do you explain it? It looks like you don't support SR.
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You didn't say anything about what C is doing. Is C on a planet? Is C in his own spaceship? Is C moving relative to the Earth? Is C moving relative to planet X? Is planet X moving relative to Earth? All of these things are possible, but you haven't specified which of them is true in your scenario.

    What are you surprised about, exactly? Are you okay?
    You talk about "when B is flying at 0.1 c". But A and B's final ages when they get back together don't just depend on "when B is flying at 0.1 c". They depend on the entire relative motion.

    I think it's time for you to do a little work.

    If you disagree with my answer, show me your working and your final answer.

    By the way, your second scenario doesn't just involve SR, because the way you specified it has both A and B accelerating for some parts of the journey.
     
  19. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    James R, your question is like your friend invites you to her house and you ask her: "Do I need to bring a plate? Do I need to bring a knife and fork? Do I need to bring a napkin? Do I need to bring a mouth ? Do I need to bring my teeth?"
    Your friend didn't tell you this, and it got you into trouble, and you started complaining that your friend didn't give you enough information.
     
  20. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    • Please do not troll.
    You gave a very positive answer again, which is very good.
    But your answer will crash the chemist, your answer will crash SR, and your answer will crash the disciples of Einstein.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Tony:

    You seem unwilling or incapable of:
    • specifying the details of the scenarios you are asking about.
    • providing any justification for your claims that SR is wrong.
    • providing any justification for your claims that I am wrong about anything in relativity.
    • providing any evidence that you understand anything about relativity.
    • doing any work of your own to try to find answers to your scenarios, for yourself.
    Moreover, at the start of this thread, you blamed chat GPT for not being able to make sense of your poorly-specified scenarios. Now you're blaming me for not being able to make sense of your poorly-specified scenarios.

    I think you're trolling. I think this thread is a waste of everybody's time.

    If you plan on posting to sciforums again, please try to have a point to discuss. And if you're going to claim something or somebody is wrong, please have an argument for your position ready.

    This thread is now closed.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Moderator note:

    TonyYuan has been warned for trolling.

    Many times in this thread, Tony has claimed variously that the theory of relativity is wrong and that things I wrote are wrong. However, Tony has made no effort to demonstrate or explain the errors he alleges. Rather, his intent appears to be merely to try to provoke an angry response, which is what a troll does.

    Since there appears little chance of Tony engaging in a useful discussion in this thread about Chat GPT or the theory of relativity, the thread is now closed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2023
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