But M*W, what you say is offensive to me too. Just because we disagree on the issue does not give either of us the right to take away the other's freedom of speech. I cannot force my beliefs on anyone. But I may talk of them and explain why I am fervently the way I am. I will defend myself and I will defend what I say because to me it is incredibly important. And it is also incredibly important that I share publically. You do not have to agree with me. You do not (to be fair) have to even view my text. You may ignore me completely. I will not mind. You have free will of course. As do I. I do not feel that I have broken any rules here. If that is the case then I will surely be removed from this site with no further ado. I do what I do with a clear conscious in a Religious context in a forum dedicated to Religion. The trouble is every time I open my mouth I am asked for proof. The proof I offer is my own testimony but I am not believed. Apart from being not believed I am judged as a hypocrite because I express my own personal feelings towards the homosexual act between two men in light of the fact that I myself have been approached in an unfitting manner several times by men and each time I was physically repulsed. I am continuously called an idiot / amoeba man blah blah blah but yet I continue to talk about the central figure of Christianity in spite of it all. You are not asking me to respect your rights M*W, you are asking me to shut up. You are asking me to compromise my Religion so that you do not have to hear it. You do not have the right to ask me to do that. You do have the right however to ignore me. If the moderators are not happy with any of my posts, I am sure they are experienced enough to go through the evidence and contact me if necessary. I will of course respect any decision made by the moderators. I have no argument with them. They have a job to do. I respect that. peace c20
c20H25N3o: But M*W, what you say is offensive to me too. Just because we disagree on the issue does not give either of us the right to take away the other's freedom of speech. I cannot force my beliefs on anyone. But I may talk of them and explain why I am fervently the way I am. I will defend myself and I will defend what I say because to me it is incredibly important. And it is also incredibly important that I share publically. ************* M*W: Generally, we do have freedom of speech, but you are abusing that freedom by your constant preaching. No one really cares what you believe or what I believe, they just want the evidence for what we believe. That's why this is a debate forum. Without providing the evidence to back-up your statements, you are preaching. I doubt that anyone wants to ban you, because your posts are bordering on insanity, and the rest of us see your posts as comic relief. I believe a lot of the members here have pity on you. You go beyond the point of making it inextricably clear that you are just a normal, everyday kind of guy who holds his christian faith highly. I'm just curious, why have you regularly tried to make the point that you are just like any 'normal man?' What is it that you feel the need to hide? That you may be somewhat 'abnormal'? Could it be physically, emotionally or religiously seated? You come across as a zealot, and I feel there must be some underlying reasoning why you want to make sure we all believe you are just a normal (if not, christian fanatical) kind of guy. You seem to be insecure and you tend to overcompensate for your manhood and your faith. Just an observation. ************* c20: You do not have to agree with me. You do not (to be fair) have to even view my text. You may ignore me completely. I will not mind. You have free will of course. As do I. I do not feel that I have broken any rules here. If that is the case then I will surely be removed from this site with no further ado. I do what I do with a clear conscious in a Religious context in a forum dedicated to Religion. ************* M*W: Again, this forum is a debate forum not a propaganda forum. You are guilty of not observing the no preaching rule. ************* c20: The trouble is every time I open my mouth I am asked for proof. The proof I offer is my own testimony but I am not believed. ************* M*W: Personal testimony is not considered evidence or proof. It's called 'preaching.' ************* c20: Apart from being not believed I am judged as a hypocrite because I express my own personal feelings towards the homosexual act between two men in light of the fact that I myself have been approached in an unfitting manner several times by men and each time I was physically repulsed. ************* M*W: Expressing your own personal believe about the 'homosexual act' is discrimination. What should it matter to anyone what someone else's sexual preference is? You've brought up the issue of homosexuality several times now, and you want to make sure we all know how repulsed you were. What are you trying to prove to us about your personal experience with homosexuals approaching you??? It doesn't make any difference to us. You seem to be adamantly trying to prove you are married with children -- that you are definitely a heterosexual. Why is this important to you? Are you unsure of your masculinity? Perhaps your devout believe in christianity is to cover us your own homophobia? You know, a homophobic doesn't really fear homosexuals, he fears the homosexual tendencies within his own psyche. That terrifies him. ************* c20: I am continuously called an idiot / amoeba man blah blah blah but yet I continue to talk about the central figure of Christianity in spite of it all. You are not asking me to respect your rights M*W, you are asking me to shut up. ************* M*W: You brought this on yourself from your rampant preaching. We don't want to hear anything more about what christians believe. It's already been crammed down our throats by the christians preceding you. That's why we won't tolerate it anymore. All I and all the others on this forum are asking of you is to stop the preaching. We want serious debate, but you have admitted that it is against your religion to debate your faith. Then Gravity offered you a selection of christian sites where you would be welcomed and could probably offer those forums a lot of your testimony, and even preaching, and it would be appreciated by the members. I am not asking you to 'shut up' like you think. That's your insecurity talking. For someone who claims to be a christian, you have a lot of insecurities. How would you feel if all the atheists kept preaching about the values of atheism? You'd want us to shut up, too! We just tell you that we don't believe -- and that's the extent of what atheists have to say. But, we CAN give you all the reasons religion is wrong but, then, you just want us to shut up. You cannot prove to us why we are wrong and you are right. If you could do that, it would truly be a miracle. But, hey, not even God nor Jesus could convince us otherwise, so I doubt you could. ************* c20: You are asking me to compromise my Religion so that you do not have to hear it. You do not have the right to ask me to do that. You do have the right however to ignore me. If the moderators are not happy with any of my posts, I am sure they are experienced enough to go through the evidence and contact me if necessary. I will of course respect any decision made by the moderators. I have no argument with them. They have a job to do. I respect that. ************* M*W: AGAIN, it's your PREACHING without providing researchable EVIDENCE. Personal testimony is NOT EVIDENCE, and your testimony borders on delusion. If you can't show the PROOF, you're in the wrong forum. You NEVER say anything new -- it's the same spiel post after post. I think you're an embarrassment to God and to Jesus, because you 'doth protest too much.'(Shakespeare)
And MW, for crying out loud...c2o doesn't preach any more than you do. All you ever do is preach about how Paul is the antichrist and pulled off this vast and wonderous conspiracy that has impossibly fooled mankind for the past 2000 years. It's obviously ridiculous, and it's all you ever offer up into a debate or conversation, and yet no one is trying to ban you for preaching. Get over it. It is you that never says anything new. And the Bible is a million times more credible resource or reference than your websites. You provide evidence that Paul was delusional. You provide evidence that I am delusional. You provide evidence that c2o is delusional. You provide evidence that every single born again Christian that professes an interaction with the Holy Spirit is delusional. And while you're at it, evidence that contradicts every single miracle or healing that's occurred in the name of Jesus. Yea, I know delusional...evidence please. I want in depth scientific studies...I want psychological evaluations to back it up. You think you have an arguement???? You call everyone you disagree with delusional!!!! Yea, that's profound MW...profound. So would you stop your preaching about delusion please? Thanks.
lori 7 do you believe in a god, I'll answer for you "yes" . therefore you must be delusional, as you believe you see and hear things that are'nt there. and c20 the same.and every born again christian, the same. quite simple put anybody who believes they see things that are'nt there is delusional. de·lu·sion A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand. Psychiatry. A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution, delusions of grandeur. The act or process of deluding. The state of being deluded. so the onus, is on you to prove that the thing you believe in, is there and can be heard, by all with scientific proof.
But nobody, *NOBODY* better dare question the existance of the great IPU! (Invisible Pink Unicorn). Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The Invisible Pink Unicorn
Anyone can go to dictionary.com faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth) n. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith. A set of principles or beliefs. Idiom: in faith Indeed; truly. **** So we have two opposites, faith and delusion. Truth and lies. So what is the truth and what is the lie? You say that we lie. - This is accusatory We say that we speak the truth. - This is testimony. **** Let's go to dictionary.com again shall we? ac·cuse ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-kyz) v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es v. tr. To charge with a shortcoming or error. To charge formally with a wrongdoing. v. intr. To make a charge of wrongdoing against another. tes·ti·mo·ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tst-mn) n. pl. tes·ti·mo·nies A declaration by a witness under oath, as that given before a court or deliberative body. All such declarations, spoken or written, offered in a legal case or deliberative hearing. Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof. A public declaration regarding a religious experience. The stone tablets inscribed with the Law of Moses. The ark containing these tablets. **** So in context you accuse those with faith as being in error. You accuse us of wrongdoing (sin means wrongdoing, to be in error, to miss the mark) What is our sin according to you? You accuse us of making a public declaration regarding a religious experience. What is our declaration of religious experience? Our declaration is that God forgives sin through Jesus Christ's blood. **** It is ironic that the enlightened are so blind given simple definitions of the words 'accuse' and 'testimony'. Wake up. Let the light of Christ shine upon you. Forgive yourselves. Be free. Know that you are saved in Him. peace c20
however you must back up your testimony with evidence. if you feel that you are accused then you must defend, by supplying evidence. the burden of proof, is yours as you state that something exists, it is you believe. not ours, it is not for us to prove, that your god does not exist, thats quite clear. unfortunely or fortunately as the case may be, we need dictionarys to know words, to define words. so whats the problem. c20
I have supplied evidence but you do not believe me. I am accused of being delusional. You do not accept either my testimony or the testimony of others who tell you about their lives on here. I could ask the two Christians who prayed with me in the beginning to testify as to what they witnessed happen to me but again you would probably accuse them of being delusional too. Our testimonies should be enough for you but still you demand proof. If you do not believe the word in my mouth I can offer you no more. I cannot force you out of your unbelief. If you reject my testimony then you reject God because it is about God whom I testify. I am saying God forgives wrongdoing. You say I am wrong to say that because I am delusional and a liar. How else may I help you if you do not believe me when I say you are forgiven? If you say "I have done nothing wrong to be forgiven" then you are the only man except for Jesus Christ who may say that. But I say "Forgive yourselves and live in love, repent of your wicked acts and know God's good grace for you." God is happy to forgive sins because He loves a contrite heart. I know my sins are forgiven. My sins both now and the ones I am bound to commit in the future. I cannot help sinning. I do it every day. I am just a man. But it is good to know that God's grace covers me. It makes me humble. And the more I understand grace, the less I want to sin. It brings about repentance of the things I do that I am not proud of. Here is my testimony again in case you missed it http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=36438 peace c20
Why do you not believe me? If I told you I had a burger for lunch would you disbelieve my word on that to? peace c20
c20H25N3o: I have supplied evidence but you do not believe me. I am accused of being delusional. You do not accept either my testimony or the testimony of others who tell you about their lives on here. I could ask the two Christians who prayed with me in the beginning to testify as to what they witnessed happen to me but again you would probably accuse them of being delusional too. Our testimonies should be enough for you but still you demand proof. If you do not believe the word in my mouth I can offer you no more. I cannot force you out of your unbelief. If you reject my testimony then you reject God because it is about God whom I testify. I am saying God forgives wrongdoing. You say I am wrong to say that because I am delusional and a liar. How else may I help you if you do not believe me when I say you are forgiven? If you say "I have done nothing wrong to be forgiven" then you are the only man except for Jesus Christ who may say that. But I say "Forgive yourselves and live in love, repent of your wicked acts and know God's good grace for you." God is happy to forgive sins because He loves a contrite heart. I know my sins are forgiven. My sins both now and the ones I am bound to commit in the future. I cannot help sinning. I do it every day. I am just a man. But it is good to know that God's grace covers me. It makes me humble. And the more I understand grace, the less I want to sin. It brings about repentance of the things I do that I am not proud of. Here is my testimony again in case you missed it http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=36438 ************* M*W: Again, testimonies are not proof of evidence. That's like me believing that my sensitive, loving Labrador Retrievers are my children. My testimony is that they are, in fact, my adopted children whom I love. I believe this with all my being. I treat them like my children, I love and nurture them like my children, I talk to them, care for them, please them, make them happy, educate them, all the same things I did for those I gave birth to. My testimony is my dogs are my children, all three of them. I believe I have given enough evidence to prove that my dogs are my children. How can any of you deny this to my face? It's what I believe? It is my testimony.
c20H25N3o: Why do you not believe me? If I told you I had a burger for lunch would you disbelieve my word on that to? ************* M*W: Absolutely not! There's no reason for anyone to not believe what you stuck in your own pie hole. It's offensive when you try to stick your burger into someone else's pie hole.
Lori_7: And MW, for crying out loud...c2o doesn't preach any more than you do. All you ever do is preach about how Paul is the antichrist and pulled off this vast and wonderous conspiracy that has impossibly fooled mankind for the past 2000 years. It's obviously ridiculous, and it's all you ever offer up into a debate or conversation, and yet no one is trying to ban you for preaching. Get over it. ************* M*W: Lori, I don't 'preach,' I 'teach.' I've researched Paul of Tarsus extensively, and I relate what I've found. If people choose to believe it -- fine. If they don't -- fine. They can research Paul as easily as I have. The information is abundantly out there. No, I will not 'get over it.' I research this subject daily -- among others. ************* Lori: It is you that never says anything new. And the Bible is a million times more credible resource or reference than your websites. ************* M*W: If I could research 100 subjects at the same time, I would have more to teach, but I have limited myself to conduct in depth research in a few areas until I'm satisfied with the outcome. There are many areas I'm interested in such as midwifery, medical education, religious research, Egyptology, try, complementary and alternative medicines, psychological counseling, family law, my family (and not necessarily in that order, however). I spend as much time as I can afford reading. I will be retiring next month, so I'll have even more time to do my reading and research. ************* Lori: You provide evidence that Paul was delusional. You provide evidence that I am delusional. ************* M*W: I have NEVER called you 'delusional' -- NEVER! You are assuming that because many of us have called c20 'delusional' that you have taken up 'his cross' to bear. ************* Lori: You provide evidence that c2o is delusional. You provide evidence that every single born again Christian that professes an interaction with the Holy Spirit is delusional. And while you're at it, evidence that contradicts every single miracle or healing that's occurred in the name of Jesus. Yea, I know delusional...evidence please. ************* M*W: Lori, at one time I, too, was delusional about christianity, so I know the signs. Show me where I've "provided evidence, not testimony, that every single born again Christian" is delusional? Interestingly, you think I've provided evidence against the miracles of Jesus. I have not actually studied in depth all the miracles of Jesus. I've only studied the wedding at Cana, but I don't believe I've extrapolated on it on this forum. ************* Lori: I want in depth scientific studies...I want psychological evaluations to back it up. You think you have an arguement???? You call everyone you disagree with delusional!!!! Yea, that's profound MW...profound. So would you stop your preaching about delusion please? Thanks. ************* M*W: Well, that may be hard since I've studied abnormal psychology and psychiatry during my career, and I've seen a few delusional patients in my day. Like my mother always told me, rest her soul, "birds of a feather, flock together."
Kissing Hanks Ass Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first: John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary." Mary: Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?" John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you." Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?" John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass." Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..." Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?" Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..." John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?" Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..." Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?" John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town." Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?" Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you." Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?" John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money." Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?" John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it." Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?" Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street." Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?" John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'" Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game." John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you." Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..." Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank." Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?" John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on." Me: "Who's Karl?" Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times." Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?" John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself." Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead." Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper." Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting." John: "Of course, Hank dictated it." Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?" Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people." Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?" Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right." Me: "How do you figure that?" Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!" Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up." John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too." Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong." John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure." Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..." Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese." Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese." John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!" Me: "We do?" Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so." Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'" John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking." Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?" Mary: She blushes. John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong." Me: "What if I don't have a bun?" John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong." Me: "No relish? No Mustard?" Mary: She looks positively stricken. John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!" Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?" Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la." John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..." Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time." Mary: She faints. John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater." With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off. ------------------------------------------------------ From: http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv
Audible, Do you believe there is no God? I'll answer for you "yes". therefore you must be delusional, as you don't believe you see and hear things that are there. and c2o is not the same. and every born again christian is not the same. quite simply put anybody who believes they don't see things that are there is delusional. Audible, there is a God, and His Son is Jesus Christ, and the Bible is His Word. because you do not believe this to be true, then it is YOU who is delusional by your own referenced definition. For there is validating evidence all around you...everywhere...even in your own life...every single moment of every single day. Even the atheist scientists had to bow down and offer up the intelligent design "theory" which is now included in science text books right along side Darwin's theory of evolution. Of course they don't call it God...wouldn't want to do that...I'm sure they're saving the glory for the "aliens" when they get here. right back at you audible...prove to me that there is no God...go... and by the way, your opinion does not count as proof...after all, you're delusional. Love, Lori
Kiss Hanks Butt, or else you know what will happen! And anybody who doesn't believe in Hank?! Clearly delusional!
correct why and how, this is quite clearly the truth, there is no god thats is utterly stupid, of course I do else, I would not be able to see what you've written, and hear the music I have playing while I write on this forum. quite right they are delusional, they see things that dont exist. I quite agree and also people who see things that are not there, are delusional, thats very clever of you to work that out. could you possibly supply the reference material for this, thank you. no need it's clear as glass, but for the religious to prove there is one , now thats another story. already answered I've taken the liberty of answering for audible. misty thank you.
Hank's word condemns sex so we can't take that literally! Ah yes, let us take it metaphorically. Oh wait! It still doesn't make sense so let us say Hank's wisdom is just too much for us to understand and give up on reason.
